Glossary entry

Italian term or phrase:

altruità

English translation:

Brand ownership

Added to glossary by Giulia Gigliotti
Dec 19, 2012 23:14
11 yrs ago
6 viewers *
Italian term

altruità

Italian to English Law/Patents Law: Patents, Trademarks, Copyright
parte della frase "obliterando l'equazione tra notorieta ed altruita del marchio, pretenderebbe in sostanza di appropriarsi di un marchio altrui!"

so che si intende "una cosa altrui" praticamente, ma come mettere questo "altruità"
non mi viene proprio in mente
grazie!
Change log

Dec 22, 2012 19:45: Giulia Gigliotti Created KOG entry

Discussion

ivanamdb (asker) Dec 21, 2012:
Jim! as always, you really find the most suitable solutions. thank you guys for the time you put into this "tortuous" question! I do appear to come up with the most contorted questions!
everyone was really spot on,but the issue is, as always, that terms are not always identical between common and civil law as Giles said.
Giulia Gigliotti Dec 21, 2012:
Thanks James and Giles for your research and all your thoughtful contributions :)
Giles Watson Dec 21, 2012:
Nice one, Jim That looks good.
James (Jim) Davis Dec 21, 2012:
Found it This is the "Equation between broad recognition of a brand and owership rights to that brand". Because if it isn't registered you have some rights based on "pre-uso" and "notorietà". Wiki:
Si distingue il marchio di fatto dal marchio registrato che, in virtù del processo di registrazione dinanzi all'Ufficio Italiano Brevetti e Marchi (UIBM), gode di una protezione rafforzata in quanto ha data certa, mentre il marchio di fatto deve dimostrare sia la notorietà che il preuso esteso.
Giles Watson Dec 21, 2012:
Res allius "Ownership" indicates the state of possession while "private property" refers to the thing possessed, which means you have to formulate the phrase differently depending on which one you use.

And as Jim says, "altruità" is a concept from civil law with no direct equivalent in common law.

So far, I have offered a version using Giulia's "ownership" while fbbest has proposed "misappropriation", which is promising but adds a notion of unlawfulness not present in "altruità" (and, like "appropriation" without the "mis", shifts the focus from the state of the thing to the action of seizing it).

@Jim
How would you formulate the phrase using "private property"?

@fbbest
How would you formlate the phrase using "(mis)appropriation"?
James (Jim) Davis Dec 20, 2012:
It is as if we think the same things but speaking English in a different language. I considered "ownership", but the whole point about "altruità" is that it is NOT yours and to take it is to steal. It is on the other side of the fence. While neither of us can find a true synonym of altruità in English, which very probably doesn't exist, I feel that "private property" (keep out) expresses this much better than ownership which focuses much more on what IS yours, rather than what is NOT yours.
Giles Watson Dec 20, 2012:
Whatevah (as RB might say) "Recognition" sounds OK.

But "private property" is not a great solution for "altruità". Giulia's suggestion is much better.

We'll get there...
James (Jim) Davis Dec 20, 2012:
"Notorious" would seem totally appropriate for RB "Notorietà" here is a technical legal term governing brand names (I think it is in the CC), not a metaphor. I think I'm a few steps ahead of you here Giles. The English technical (nearest) equivalent for "notorietà di marchio" is "(strong) brand recognition", as far as I know which has a different focus.
Giles Watson Dec 20, 2012:
Not Russell's, though ;-) Or "visibility", if you want to change the metaphor, Jim.

But that's beside the point. The question is about "altruità", which "ownership" conveys reasonably well.
Giles Watson Dec 20, 2012:
"Ownership" fits The idea seems to be:

by ignoring/obscuring the equivalence of brand notoriety and ownership, X would in effect be seeking to gain possession of another's brand.

FWIW

ivanamdb (asker) Dec 20, 2012:
Apologies everyone,I'm travelling today and internet access is terrible. Yes Jim is on the right track,and this is a civil case where a sub sub licensee is trying to register a well known trade mark,due to alleged forfeiture for nonuse. And what the court is trying to say is that one can't just come along and register a well known brand as its own. Will try to post more info later when I get home and have decent access. In the meanwhile thank you guys for your input and help.
James (Jim) Davis Dec 20, 2012:
I think what the guy is trying to say is that just because a brand is everywhere for everybody to see and read, does not mean that it is not private property, it is and if you destroy that relationship anybody can use anybody else's brand.
Thomas Roberts Dec 19, 2012:
Is it An unregistered trade mark? That might make sense.
ivanamdb (asker) Dec 19, 2012:
belonging to another?
ivanamdb (asker) Dec 19, 2012:
thanks Thomas, uh it's quite late, I just read a bit further down the document and it also states:
l'uso del marchio da parte dell'attrice è certo che questa ha registrato ed usato un marchio che non le poteva appartenere non soltanto perche ****altrui**** per notorieta rna anche perche concretamente usato per contraddistinguere prodotti fabbricati e messi in commercia da altri.

I don't think that in this case I can use too loose a translation. :-(
perhaps something along the lines of other's property, but it sounds awful...I think I need to get rest.

Proposed translations

+2
8 hrs
Selected

Brand ownership

You could get round the problem by using simply 'brand ownership' and then introduce the concept of 'somebody else's brand' in the second part of the sentence. HTH.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q="brand awareness" altriuta...
Peer comment(s):

agree Giles Watson
10 hrs
Thanks Giles
agree James (Jim) Davis : You don't need to introduce "somebody else's brand". This is the equation "strong brand recognition = ownership rights" or of course "property rights".between ownership rigth
1 day 1 hr
Thanks Jim, that sounds good
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "thank you everyone for your input and for helping me, as well as for the lively discussion! :-)"
+1
8 mins

distinctineness

A very loose translation, but I suspect this may be what is meant in this context.
Peer comment(s):

agree Laurence Fogarty : This fits the context (changing 'n' to 'v' of course !)...you could also use 'uniqueness' here I think.
11 hrs
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11 hrs

misuse

Dovresti capire se sei nel 'penale' o 'civile', i concetti, difatti, variano.

Nella frase successiva utilizzerei 'misappropation', dal momento che 'embezzelment' e/o 'defalcation' è utilizzato più per fondi pubblici/somme sottratte.


Vedi Link in basso
L’ art. 646 c.p. prevede il reato di appropriazione indebita. Tale norma sanziona chi si appropria di danaro o altra cosa mobile altrui di cui abbia, a qualsiasi titolo, il possesso al fine di procurare a sé o ad altri un ingiusto profitto.

Gli elementi strutturali sono i seguenti: l’interesse giuridicamente protetto è il diritto di proprietà. La condotta consiste nell’appropriazione che si ha quando il soggetto si comporta uti dominus verso il bene di cui ha la disponibilità per qualsiasi motivo (legge, contratto od ogni altra causa). Si tratta di un reato comune che può essere commesso da “chiunque” purchè costui sia nel possesso della res. È un reato di danno siccome richiede l’offesa del bene protetto in senso naturalistico; di evento in quanto si perfeziona con la verificazione del fatto dannoso; a forma libera vista la condotta non tipizzata dal legislatore. Si consuma nel momento in cui viene realizzata l’appropriazione. Discussa è la configurabilità del tentativo. L’elemento soggettivo è dato dal dolo specifico poichè oltre alla rappresentazione e volontà del fatto tipico, occorre l’ulteriore scopo di procurare a sé o ad altri un ingiusto profitto.

Tanto posto, le locuzioni di “possesso”, “detenzione” ed **“altruità” ** nel sistema penale non equivalgono agli omonimi concetti civilistici.

Secondo la concezione penalistica il “possesso” è sinonimo di “detenzione” (purchè autonoma). Concetto più complesso è il **canone dell’altruità**. Quest’ultimo comprende non solo la proprietà ma anche tutta una serie di diritti o di obbligazioni che permettono a taluno di esercitare sulla cosa stessa un potere di uso o di godimento. Si tratta in definitiva di parametri tutti i quali -se correlati- fungono da criteri denotativi della condotta incriminata.


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Note added at 11 hrs (2012-12-20 10:48:14 GMT)
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simile per la 'servitù'

http://www.e-glossa.it/wiki/altruità.aspx

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Note added at 19 hrs (2012-12-20 18:44:00 GMT)
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In questo caso mi pare che vi sia dolo e 'altruità' equivale a dire 'appartenenza ad altri'.
Quindi non solo 'ownership' bensì, 'misuse of third-party ownership'

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