| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Future for translation industry Thread poster: Ben_ (X)
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John Fossey 
Canada
Local time: 08:57
Member (2008)
French to English
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| More specialization will become necessary | Jul 1, 2013 |
I agree with the view that MT is going to make massive changes but I don't agree that...
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz wrote:
The future of the translation industry is translating more for less, and faster.
I believe that the need for human translators will become more focused on those with specialist skills, translating demanding texts that require perfection in terms of accuracy (legal, contracts, technical documents) or meaning (marketing and sales documents, where presentation is vital) - in other words, fields where MT will never excel. It will become harder to break into the field, since there will be less distinction between MT and junior translators. It will probably become necessary for those wanting to get into the field to have other experience that makes them a specialist in one of the above fields as well.
[Edited at 2013-07-01 13:20 GMT]
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 13:57
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| My MT knowledge isn't with my FR>EN pair | Jul 1, 2013 |
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
Slavic languages MT compared to Germanic (any Germanic language and English) is really like Heaven and Hell. Now I am starting to understand why some people believe that certain types of translation are possible through MT -- this is if they look and some very specific languages only.
The only experience I have of MT in my language pair is GoogleTranslate and similar. They sometimes make a fair translation of one sentence out of 4, but there's still a lot of rubbish in these free offerings. No, my experience with upmarket MT tools (NOT the free ones) is with Chinese and Arabic languages to English. Although there's still a lot to be done, there's a lot being done here and now. And I'm sure the same is true of Hindi, Japanese, etc. When more clients start signing up for specialised, trained, and even client-specific MT engines and termbases, we'll see the difference. We ignore these developments at our peril, IMO.
| | | | | All the more reason to hedge our bets | Jul 1, 2013 |
If what you say is true, Sheila, then that's another really great reason to work hard on gaining knowledge in our specialties - it gives a translator something to fall back on if they ever were to find themselves squeezed out of work by machine translation software. It's all about options really, and being flexible...like most things in life.
| | | | | evolution of MT | Jul 1, 2013 |
As someone who has had the opportunity to work closely with MT for the last 10 years, doing MT training, customization and evaluation of output, I can only confirm that MT is here not only to stay but, in the long run (as late as possible I hope!), also to replace translators or to reduce them to post-editors, at least for less specialized content and the most common language combinations from and to English.
As someone already said, MT will have much less impact on medical, legal or oth... See more As someone who has had the opportunity to work closely with MT for the last 10 years, doing MT training, customization and evaluation of output, I can only confirm that MT is here not only to stay but, in the long run (as late as possible I hope!), also to replace translators or to reduce them to post-editors, at least for less specialized content and the most common language combinations from and to English.
As someone already said, MT will have much less impact on medical, legal or other very specialized translations.
But translators who work with IT content are already mainly post editors nowadays, the most forward-looking of them offering different language services, i.e. terminology, MT output evaluation etc.
MT aside, other aspects of the profession are changing too, for example the way you promote your services or, in the literary translation area, we will soon have translators self e-publishing their own translations bypassing publishers.
Our best bet is not to rest on one's laurels but to continue attending seminars, reading about the profession, exploring new areas of specialization and basically try and stay on top of your game 
[Edited at 2013-07-01 16:34 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| As are human translators | Jul 1, 2013 |
KateKaminski wrote:
However, it is completely unable to make head or tail of complex texts in contracts. All Google Translate tends to come up with is an incomprehensible mess.
And speaking of my results:
Try putting one of your usual translation source texts through GT. If the results are moderate to good, it might be time to start working on your expertise in another area! [/quote]
Well, I'm already in trouble because linguists don't understand the law and lawyers don't understand the language. In fact, sometimes linguists don't understand the language and lawyers the law. It annoys me to no end, and, among other things, visiting the Kudoz board sometimes makes me cry. Translators working on legal texts can be so clueless it's downright scary. Proofreaders aren't necessarily that much better. The chance of a good legal translation not getting botched by a non-lawyer-linguist proofreader or editor isn't high. In fact, I consider it slim.
It's actually depressing what kind of translations people accept, and prefer their authors to someone like e.g. yours truly.
| | | | | if you had a look at some Slavic and Baltic MT | Jul 1, 2013 |
you would not be so sure about that. I can assure you. It is very far from anything, not to say replacing translators. Translators will never be replaced, just like doctors will not, even if they have one day the best equipment, no matter how hard some IT people will try to impose MT on everybody, almost.
Any MT for literary translation is not an option at all. Why would anyone waste time reading what some machine composed? You can only from time to time enjoy, I guess, the paintin... See more you would not be so sure about that. I can assure you. It is very far from anything, not to say replacing translators. Translators will never be replaced, just like doctors will not, even if they have one day the best equipment, no matter how hard some IT people will try to impose MT on everybody, almost.
Any MT for literary translation is not an option at all. Why would anyone waste time reading what some machine composed? You can only from time to time enjoy, I guess, the paintings created by elephants, or even a robot. f you had to look at that type of art all the time,it might be maddening.
As to legal language, Lukasz. Polish legal language is extremely unpredictable. I translate both from Polish and from Russian, yet the Russian legalese is much more logical, and predictable once you know it, and you know the legal system. Have you noticed anything like that?
[Edited at 2013-07-01 16:12 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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[Edited at 2013-07-01 16:00 GMT]
| | | | | On PEMT and Polish MT | Jul 1, 2013 |
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz wrote:
I suspect that for some time the justice system will hold out due to its innate conservatism and technological delay, but once the justice system realises or even suspects that PEMT-ing is a viable option from the point of view of quality and accuracy in comparison to human translation, it won't hesitate to undercut translators. I wouldn't be surprised if access to interpreters were to be curtailed for defendants at law, either.
As the rates continue to drop, I predict that the best translators will make their exits. Lawyer linguists will focus on legal practice, high-profile medical translators will don the white coat again, engineers will go back where they came from. Those without degrees will get them and make their own a while later or even become paralegals, paramedics etc. already. Students will eventually realise what's going on and give up on translation as a career even before it starts. They'll opt for language certificates and some real work instead.
This said, the zombie industry may kill itself some time before MT takes over.
I tend to disagree, now having had my first contact with what I assume is PEMT. It's a large technical translation job, the original definitely having been written by engineers who had their last language classes in high school.
I was provided with reference material that seems PEMT-ed. It's just a guess, however though grammar and spelling are perfect, I saw several cases of misinterpretation where the original text would almost certainly fool a machine, yet no human being would have got it so wrong!
Regarding Polish MT, are you przyjaciele referring to Google Translate or to Poltran? I think the latter is pretty good, if compared to my own command of PL (much worse than GT's), derived only from listening to it spoken at home for the first 25 years of my life.
Nevertheless, both GT and Poltran remain useless for anything beyond what MT is intended for: to give a general idea on what it might be all about. Quite honestly, I don't think MT can evolve much beyond its current state, as long as we continue to talk and write to each other like humans.
IMO machine translation - as long as it's free - should gradually wipe out from the marketplace those amateur translators who do a worse job than that for peanuts. Bottom feeders will eventually realize that, no matter how cheap these may be, the free MT option is always cheaper.
Pozdrowienie!
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LilianBNekipelo wrote:
Slavic languages MT compared to Germanic (any Germanic language and English) is really like Heaven and Hell. Now I am starting to understand why some people believe that certain types of translation are possible through MT -- this is if they look and some very specific languages only.
The same can be said about into-English and from-English translations respectively (English is a Germanic language too, by the way; in fact, rather closely related to Flemish). Into-English MT gets away with a lot due to the near-complete absence of inflection. More so when the text is more formal, less natural, less literary and less similar to normal speech. Some simple technical texts may require minimum attention. In fact, simple legal ones also might.
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
As to legal language, Lukasz. Polish legal language is extremely unpredictable. I translate both from Polish and from Russian, yet the Russian legalese is much more logical, and predictable once you know it, and you know the legal system. Have you noticed anything like that?
Well, I've noticed that Polish legal language is basically the place where good old writing style is preserved. It is also quite formal, oftentimes archaic, sometimes yeomanly and sometimes literary. Most translators struggle not with the terminology but with the language. And not even any sort of dedicated legal language but rather the type of language legal writers use.
Also, a significant feature of PL-EN legalese is that good English legalese actually follows a similar word and clause order to Polish legalese, unlike what non-lawyer linguists tend to think (in addition to the fact they often just can't write in the appropriate register and context to save their lives).
But, yeah, I guess we could agree that some real heavy-duty Polish legalese isn't really going to be translated into English reliably by a machine any time soon. The usual antics can probably be broken down into logical patterns, though, especially if the machine is set to learn from human editing.
John Fossey wrote:
I believe that the need for human translators will become more focused on those with specialist skills, translating demanding texts that require perfection in terms of accuracy (legal, contracts, technical documents) or meaning (marketing and sales documents, where presentation is vital) - in other words, fields where MT will never excel. It will become harder to break into the field, since there will be less distinction between MT and junior translators. It will probably become necessary for those wanting to get into the field to have other experience that makes them a specialist in one of the above fields as well.
John, like you noted, junior translators will get axed, while senior translators aren't born senior. This reminds me that I was one of those guys who entered translation from a different field, myself.
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
I was provided with reference material that seems PEMT-ed. It's just a guess, however though grammar and spelling are perfect, I saw several cases of misinterpretation where the original text would almost certainly fool a machine, yet no human being would have got it so wrong! Regarding Polish MT, are you przyjaciele referring to Google Translate or to Poltran?
Well, I guess it depends on the text. I've really seen some guys do worse than GT, not sure about Poltran because I've never used the thing.
I think the latter is pretty good, if compared to my own command of PL (much worse than GT's), derived only from listening to it spoken at home for the first 25 years of my life.
Looks like you're a man of many surprises.
Nevertheless, both GT and Poltran remain useless for anything beyond what MT is intended for: to give a general idea on what it might be all about.
Well, some guys whose translations I've had to edit... It really would have been faster with GT. There are some things a machine just can't do. Omissions are minimal, additions don't happen, illogicalities are pretty logical etc. Not so with poor human translators.
Pozdrowienie!
Nawzajem!
| | | | | Taking the chance... | Jul 1, 2013 |
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz wrote:
Well, I guess it depends on the text. I've really seen some guys do worse than GT, not sure about Poltran because I've never used the thing.
It should be interesting if you EN/PL folks gave Poltran a try, and I'll explain why.
While Google Translate covers many languages, some colleagues have commented that it usually goes via EN. For instance, it does FR > PT as if it were FR > EN > PT, thus one can't be sure about at which stage did any flaws came up.
Meanwhile Poltran is limited... it only serves both ways between EN and PL, nothing else.
As I explained, my PL is absolutely minimal for essential survival, e.g. Pan mówie po Angielsko?. While I generally know what each of the diacritics should sound like, I'd have to read text in PL aloud to understand what's written. But then my pronunciation is sooo disparagingly bad - all those cz, sz, rz sound alike when I say them - that I can't understand what I say in PL. A real Pole could say all that better, even if they had no teeth!
So I wonder how Poltran compares to other machine translation devices. Perhaps by focusing on just one language pair, they managed to make it better... or not! That's the question.
| | | | Ben_ (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:57
German to English
TOPIC STARTER | Thanks for the feedback! | Jul 2, 2013 |
Some interesting replies here. I am setting myself out as a specialist in the Finance and Travel/Tourism sectors based on a spell writing for a financial magazine and a couple of years working at a travel agency. Aside from a few years' EFL teaching, this is my only significant work experience. What I get most fulfilment out of though is contracts, and getting the creative juices flowing in doing advertising/marketing texts. It seems those two things have a more secure future in that they can't ... See more Some interesting replies here. I am setting myself out as a specialist in the Finance and Travel/Tourism sectors based on a spell writing for a financial magazine and a couple of years working at a travel agency. Aside from a few years' EFL teaching, this is my only significant work experience. What I get most fulfilment out of though is contracts, and getting the creative juices flowing in doing advertising/marketing texts. It seems those two things have a more secure future in that they can't as easily be done by machines, but I don't have enough real-word experience in either of those subjects to claim any real expertise in them. What would you recommend I do for the best? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | hybridization | Jul 3, 2013 |
I believe it will come a time in about 10 years that all the work of translation, including Medical will hybridize automation and translation, this changing the position into more of a LQA than a translator so to speak.
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| That's a familiar kinda buzz | Jul 3, 2013 |
Ben Harrison wrote:
Some interesting replies here. I am setting myself out as a specialist in the Finance and Travel/Tourism sectors based on a spell writing for a financial magazine and a couple of years working at a travel agency. Aside from a few years' EFL teaching, this is my only significant work experience. What I get most fulfilment out of though is contracts, and getting the creative juices flowing in doing advertising/marketing texts. It seems those two things have a more secure future in that they can't as easily be done by machines, but I don't have enough real-word experience in either of those subjects to claim any real expertise in them. What would you recommend I do for the best?
Actually, I'm a primarily legal translator, but my clients come to me especially when they need some competent writing, and they don't really care whatever field that's in, as long as they have an egghead of competent venue somewhere at hand. That's usually sensitive PL-EN marketing, but it's really been some prohibitively awful physics or metallurgy or ophthalmology at times. I avoid the latter kind whenever possible but really like the marketing and travels and press and all. Makes me feel like a translator and not a construction procurement translation conveyor belt.
Oh, but enough of me. You should probably bring out the common denominator, which in your case seems to be writing ability. Get some credentials there? Show off a bunch of samples in your profile?
| | | | | I just saw this article today... | Oct 30, 2013 |
http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/30/news/economy/job-skills-foreign-language/
The Bureau of Labor Statistics expects demand to rise pretty significantly for translators in the coming future.
As someone who is just starting to scrape the tip of the translation iceberg, this is not the most informed opinion, but I can say that the government i... See more http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/30/news/economy/job-skills-foreign-language/
The Bureau of Labor Statistics expects demand to rise pretty significantly for translators in the coming future.
As someone who is just starting to scrape the tip of the translation iceberg, this is not the most informed opinion, but I can say that the government is NOT going to hop on the MT boat any time soon. If a translation is done wrong you can't drag multitran to court and sue it. And defense language contractors will fight it, pardon the cynicism, because you can't bill the government for man-hours of labor when you have a program doing it. It's literally amazing how many translators and interpreters the government really needs...not so sure about private industry. I will be finding out soon! ▲ Collapse
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