French term
les capacités d'enrichissement d'uranium sont exponentielles
Uranium enrichment is absolutely not my area so all help hugely welcome.
Proposed translations
uranium enrichment capacities are exponential
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Note added at 43 mins (2023-01-11 16:45:52 GMT)
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https://www.google.com/search?client=avast-a-1&q=exponentiel...
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Note added at 44 mins (2023-01-11 16:46:56 GMT)
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https://arxiv.org/abs/1602.08149
We show that using quantum annealing for recall tasks endows associative memory models with exponential storage capacities.
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José Julián Díaz
2 mins
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Thanks.
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Jennifer Levey
: As suggested elsewhere on this page, the ST is not technically correct. But fortunately, this 'nuclear engineer' is only a figment of the screen-writer's imagination, so it can be translated literally without risk of actually annihilating the planet.
2 hrs
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Thank you.
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Schtroumpf
: I like Jennifer's comment :-)
3 hrs
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Thank you.
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Andrew Bramhall
: Yes, when it waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is indeed a duck;
16 hrs
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Thank you.
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Mpoma
: The idea is complete nonsense, but you have translated the nonsense correctly, IMHO
1 day 2 hrs
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Thank you.
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Daryo
: by ignoring the omitted parts, you make a nuclear engineer talk nonsense about enriched uranium - plausible to you?
1 day 10 hrs
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Anastasia Kalantzi
2 days 20 hrs
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Thank you.
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uranium enrichment is an exponential process
so "Uranium enrichment is an exponential process"
"The EXPONENTIAL LAW FOR ENRICHMENT is that doubling the percentage of U-235 requires the same amount of effort regardless how much there already is. Getting from 20% to 40% is just as hard as getting from 1% to 2%."
"ENRICHING URANIUM IS AN EXPONENTIAL PROCESS, and when Iran began enriching to 20 percent this set off warning signs as this would increase Iran’s ability to make a nuclear weapon"
"EXPONENTIAL PROCESS – going from 0.7% U-235 to 4.5% is ~ 2/3 of the work of making 90% U-235"
"URANIUM ENRICHMENT IS AN EXPONENTIAL PROCESS, so once centrifuges have increased the 0.7 percent U-235 that comes out of the ground to the ..."
But the play's 'uranium enrichment capacities are exponential' is probably suitably ... er, dramatic to be an appropriate translation and if the set wobbles or the lights flicker at that point, nobody, even the most astute nuclear engineer will notice or give a hoot.
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Note added at 57 mins (2023-01-11 17:00:20 GMT)
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If we consider that weapons-grade uranium starts at 60% (90% is ideal), it takes only one more step after the 5 steps (1-2, 2-4, 4-8, 8-16, 16-32) presented above, these steps being mere approximations since the natural U-235 content of uranium is about 0.7%.
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philgoddard
: Good point!
1 hr
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Schtroumpf
: Je crois également que la phrase pêche en français. Mais bon, c'est celle-là qu'il faut traduire (contexte donné : screenplay !), et pas une autre phrase qui nous semblerait plus juste.
2 hrs
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Kim Metzger
4 hrs
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agree |
Andrew Bramhall
16 hrs
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Mpoma
: The ST doesn't say that: it says the *capacités* are exponential. Meaningless twaddle must be translated as meaningless twaddle, but accurately.
1 day 1 hr
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neutral |
Daryo
: you got rid of "capacités", no need for that, otherwise yes. The ST is too shortened, but perfectly correct.
1 day 10 hrs
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uranium enrichment capacity is exponential
Profile of World Uranium Enrichment Programs-2009
Federation Of American Scientists ·
https://nuke.fas.org › ...
by MD Laughter · 2009 · Cited by 13 — Uranium enrichment capacity has continued to expand on all fronts in the last ... exponentially increase, resulting in a nuclear explosion.
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Mpoma
: The idea is complete nonsense, but you have translated the nonsense correctly, IMHO.
1 day 1 hr
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Daryo
: in this ST it's not about that kind of "exponential increase" + a "nuclear engineer talking nonsense about uranium enrichment" is an "assumption of last resort" - plenty others to consider before getting there.
1 day 10 hrs
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The effort required to enrich uranium is increasing exponentially
See discussion.
Uranium found in nature consists largely of two isotopes, uranium-235 (U-235, fissile) at 0.7 % and uranium-238 (U-238, non fissile) at 99.3 %. U-238 does not contribute directly to the fission process (though it does so indirectly by the formation of fissile isotopes of plutonium 239). Because of the small percentage of fissile material in the natural uranium, and in order to obtain suitable nuclear fuel for the pressurised water reactors (PWR, the majority in Europe), it is necessary to increase the concentration (‘enrich’) of the U-235 isotope from 0.7 % to 3-5 %.
:
The standard measure, the "separative work unit", is the effort required to separate isotopes of uranium (U235 and U238) in the enrichment process: 1 tSWU is equivalent to 1 tonne of separative work units (tSWU).
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...
Separative work unit, abbreviated as SWU, is the standard measure of the effort required to separate isotopes of uranium (U235 and U238) during an enrichment process in nuclear facilities.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...
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Jennifer Levey
: There's no way you can justify equating capacités to 'effort required'.
32 mins
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As "capacités" is wrong, you have to refer to nuclear physics to identify the correct term.
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Schtroumpf
: Retraduisez la phrase en français - elle ne ressemble en rien à celle qui est demandée ! (même commentaire que sur votre réponse précédente, apparemment effacée)
44 mins
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Les "capacités" ne peuvent pas monter exponentiellement dans le contexte. Pour en comprendre le sens, il faut se référer à la physique nucléaire et choisir les termes appropriés en conséquence. La traduction littérale n'est pas possible.
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Andrew Bramhall
: No mention of effort anywhere in the ST;
13 hrs
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You're right, but "capacités" is wrong. You have to refer to nuclear physics to identify the correct term.
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philgoddard
: "Increases" would make sense.
20 hrs
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thank you!
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Daryo
: that's technically correct and if it's a nuclear engineer speaking that must be what he meant + there's nothing else that could be "exponential" in this enriched uranium business // OTOH it's got to be said in a way that fits into the text.
1 day 7 hrs
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Thank you!
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uranium enrichment capabilities are on an exponential curve
I agree with discussion entries of the sentence making little sense, even in context.
Note that it is the capabilities, rather than the enrichment levels, that are 'exponential' or can increase exponentially as in exponential growth or factor.
Perhaps we should assume that the French-speaking playwright is qualified in nuclear physics.
IATE: information technology and data processing [EDUCATION AND COMMUNICATIONS] land transport [TRANSPORT, land transport] TRANSPORT COM fr capacité COM en capability COM
Highly enriched uranium (HEU) is anything enriched above 20% and weapon-grade uranium is commonly considered to have been enriched above 90% ...
http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=exponential+curve+formula
http://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/exponential-factor
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Tony M
: I do tend to agree that this is about (a country's) "capabilities" — something that is being discussed a lot at the moment, as the more uranium they process, the more plutonium they can make...
5 days
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Merci and thanks, Tony. Alas, the capacities vs. capabilities distinction was lost on the literal translators - and, crucially, on the asker.
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the required processing capacities increase exponentially [with the purity of U235]
A nuclear engineer talking about enriched uranium? Unless it's a totally incompetent one that by some miracle is still in the profession, I wouldn't jump so quickly on assumptions of the "that's just meaningless twaddle" kind.
What is the case here, as it happens often with specialised jargon, is that experts often abbreviate what they are saying to the point that it sounds absurd without the omitted parts.
"Vous savez que les capacités d'enrichissement d'uranium sont exponentielles...."
=
"Vous savez que les capacités d'enrichissement d'uranium requises sont exponentielles [par rapport à la concentration de U235 à obtenir.....]"
IOW
"Vous savez que les capacités d'enrichissement d'uranium sont exponentielles. Nous produisons de l'uranium légèrement à faiblement enrichi en restant sous les seuils de 10% d'uranium 235."
in effect means
As you know the required processing capacities increase exponentially [with the purity of U235 required]. We make lightly to low enriched uranium ... (meaning implicitly: we don't need huge processing capacities to get that level of enrichment).
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Mpoma
: This is very plausible. But inserting "requises" changes the meaning, notably of "de", completely (making much more sense). What you are doing there is *interpolating* (or surmising), not translating. I think a note to the client is more appropriate.
4 hrs
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No, it makes the meaning clearer for everyone, even for those who heard the first time about enriched uranium // the only thing that it "changes" is to make explicit parts are implicitly present in the ST.
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Discussion
Still, assuming that a character that is supposed to be a qualified nuclear engineer would be talking nonsense about basics of nuclear enrichment is for me a step too far. Simply doesn't make for a plausible story.
OTOH there is the actual fact that there is s.t. "exponential" in this nuclear enrichment business: the correlation between the targeted concentration of U235 and the resources in equipment and time needed to achieve it - each additional % (of improved concentration of U235) requires exponentially more and more resources.
Some basic facts https://www.nrc.gov/materials/fuel-cycle-fac/ur-enrichment.h...
(I just done it myself: I said "budget" instead of "film production budget")
The ST as shown does not come across as spoken/written by an expert accustomed to speaking using "abbreviated expressions" (with other experts), but as spoken by a scriptwriter with no scientific training, who has overheard an expert on the radio, or transcribed something in jumbled fashion from a Wikipedia page on uranium enrichment. And that's fine in this context.
It's something that occurs in fact quite often. People who deal with some specialised matter all day long end up using abbreviated expressions for the simple reason that omitted parts are so blindingly obvious to them that they would fill silly/wasting their time saying it. Which doesn't help much the translator who can't be familiar with every single professional jargon, and which is why experts talking the way they're use to may well sound as "meaningless twaddle".
@RosiJillett Has this screenplay been already broadcast/published? Without giving away any spoilers, can you give more of the preceding dialogue, showing how the characters came to talks about low concentration U235? That might clarify what point this expert was trying to make by saying "Nous produisons de l'uranium .... en restant sous les seuils de 10% d'uranium 235".
Traduire c'est traduire; la réécriture du texte... ... n'est pas demandée. Lorsque vous traduisez les horreurs d'un PV d'audition après un meurtre, vous n'allez pas non plus changer les phrases du style "Elle a mérité ce qu'elle a eu" en "Je regrette, Monsieur le Juge, c'est de ma faute" !
Il ne s'agit pas de réécrire tout - notre métier est ailleurs. Si on devait changer les textes à chaque fois avant de traduire, on n'aurait pas fini notre journée ; ensuite, nous devrions faire valider tous ces changements par le client, sinon nous manquerions à notre devoir essentiel de fidélité au texte original.
But you've got it completely right: if we were told the context was some project to build a nuclear power station, we'd certainly be obliged to point out the fact that, worryingly, the builders didn't seem to know much about nuclear physics. But in the context of a film it is not only good to translate twaddle in as twaddle out, but essential: we want to get the right *tone*, which arguably comes across as slightly more "exciting" than the mundane reality that enrichment gets harder the higher the %.
Well, IMO, the translator should translate what is said in the screenplay and keep the sense of drama - if it's kind of a Titanic scenario, nobody cares about scientific rigor when the hull is filling with sea water.
The text says the enrichment *capacities* are "exponential". In other words, as time ticks by, the *capacity* for enrichment increases at an ever-increasing rate (to be accurate, we obviously don't know whether this exponential characteristic is temporal, but we have no justification to conclude anything else).
This can't be uranium: there is only one substance in the known universe which has this quality, anti-kryptonite. I refer you to the table herein: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kryptonite
https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/627642/what-is-t...
Après la 8e étape, on aurait déjà enrichi 128% de l'uranium initial. Ce serait un perpetuum mobile. Au contraire, plus on enrichit, plus on doit faire d'efforts. C'est le seul qui soit "exponentiel".
L'uranium 238 qui n'a pas encore été converti diminue à chaque étape et fournit de moins en moins d'uranium 235 supplémentaire.
Le taux d'enrichissement se rapprochera donc de plus en plus lentement de l'asymptote 100% et ne l'atteindra que dans un temps infini. Pour s'en rendre compte, il suffit d'inverser la fonction exponentielle en fonction logarithmique inversée.
La fonction logarithmique de base se rapproche de plus en plus de l’axe des ordonnées, sans jamais y toucher. L’axe des ordonnées correspond donc à une asymptote verticale.
https://www.alloprof.qc.ca/fr/eleves/bv/mathematiques/la-fon...