Oct 17, 2004 12:55
19 yrs ago
English term
Fast Fluent Faithful
Native in: Turkish 
Works in: English to Turkish, Turkish to English, Turkish
question to get the following answer
Non-PRO
English
Art/Literary
Linguistics
(Please native speakers only)
Question: I am trying to ask the position of Harry S. Truman in the numerical listing of Presidents of the United States to get the following answer:
"Harry S. Truman was the 33rd President of the USA."
How should I ask the question to get this answer?
thank you
Question: I am trying to ask the position of Harry S. Truman in the numerical listing of Presidents of the United States to get the following answer:
"Harry S. Truman was the 33rd President of the USA."
How should I ask the question to get this answer?
thank you
Responses
Responses
+10
50 mins
Selected
you've already answered your own question!
"What number president was HST?" is exactly what came to my mind... and I'm a native speaker from the US.
Other sites use the same question (see below).
The second reference lists this question for Hayes. The site (the Rutherford B. Hayes Presidential Center) has a Q&A series about the President.
14. What number President was Hayes and whom did he follow? He was the 19th President,following Grant.
You can trust your instinct on this one!
Other sites use the same question (see below).
The second reference lists this question for Hayes. The site (the Rutherford B. Hayes Presidential Center) has a Q&A series about the President.
14. What number President was Hayes and whom did he follow? He was the 19th President,following Grant.
You can trust your instinct on this one!
Peer comment(s):
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cmwilliams (X)
1 min
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Thanks!
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| agree |
RHELLER
12 mins
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Thanks Rita!
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| agree |
Mapi
: well, I am not a native English speaker, but that was exactly my first thought too
1 hr
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Thanks. We actually had to memorize this kind of stuff at school!
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| agree |
Ian M-H (X)
1 hr
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Thanks Ian.
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| agree |
Derek Gill Franßen
: Crazy English, but it IS used. ;-)
1 hr
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English IS crazy. That's what's so appealing about it, right? ;-)
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| agree |
Terry Gilman
: this is plain and sturdy, but the 'numerical order' solution offered by James Caulfield strikes me a preferable in a formal context
2 hrs
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Thanks. We need to know how formal this context is.
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| agree |
Asghar Bhatti
8 hrs
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| agree |
DDH (X)
18 hrs
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| agree |
John Bowden
1 day 4 hrs
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| agree |
Stefangelo DPSI
1789 days
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "I would like to thank all who spent their valuable time and effort to help me. And all you actually helped me in certain ways. For example, I learnt in this process that English language do not have a question word for ordinal questions. Please see my note on why I am choosing my own answer as the most helpful! :)"
+1
16 mins
which position did Harry Truman hold within the US President succession?
A try
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Hacene
: position does not fit here
8 mins
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| agree |
airmailrpl
: -within the US Presidental succession
19 hrs
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Cheers
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+1
16 mins
English term (edited):
A: Harry S. Truman was the 33rd President of the USA
Q: Who was the 33rd President of the U.S.?
this question will either call for a short answer or a long answer.
short answer: "Harry S. Truman" (acceptable when speaking but not in a more formal context)
long answers: 1) The 33rd U.S. President was Harry S. Truman
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ 2) Harry S. Truman was the 33rd President of the U.S..
For this type of questions, see the game called Jeopardy and see "quiz show 5"
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Note added at 26 mins (2004-10-17 13:22:21 GMT)
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Following Michel\'s comment:
WHAT RANKING DOES HARRY S. TRUMAN HOLD IN THE AMERICAN PRESIDENCY SUCCESSION?
would be another formulation
short answer: "Harry S. Truman" (acceptable when speaking but not in a more formal context)
long answers: 1) The 33rd U.S. President was Harry S. Truman
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ 2) Harry S. Truman was the 33rd President of the U.S..
For this type of questions, see the game called Jeopardy and see "quiz show 5"
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Note added at 26 mins (2004-10-17 13:22:21 GMT)
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Following Michel\'s comment:
WHAT RANKING DOES HARRY S. TRUMAN HOLD IN THE AMERICAN PRESIDENCY SUCCESSION?
would be another formulation
+2
53 mins
Which of the 43 presidents of the USA was Harry S. Truman?
How about "Which of the 43 presidents of the USA was Harry S. Truman?"
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Derek Gill Franßen
: ;-)
20 mins
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| agree |
Terry Gilman
: This could elicit the answer, but it might also result in "He was the one whose middle initial didn't stand for anything." // Actually it was supposedly a parental compromise between family names (Shipper and Salomon), so it did have a meaning.
2 hrs
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True :-)
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58 mins
what was Harry S. Truman's numerical position amongst all the US Presidents?
what was Harry S. Truman's numerical position amongst all the US Presidents?
N.B.:
I am not a native speaker; but English is my 2nd language and my field of Study. Hence, could not resist the temptation to reply.
N.B.:
I am not a native speaker; but English is my 2nd language and my field of Study. Hence, could not resist the temptation to reply.
-2
15 mins
Derek Gill Franßen
Germany
Germany
Native in English
&
English
Works in field
Germany
German Attorney & University Lecturer
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, English, English to German, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
12
Harry S. Truman was the how manyeth president?
I know that sounds strange, but it's the only way I can think of to keep it short and that how we would 'say' it (also see: http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=manyeth&meta= ). ;-)
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Note added at 17 mins (2004-10-17 13:12:27 GMT)
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Or I guess you could phrase it like the first link above: \"The how manyeth president of the United States was Harry S. Truman?\".
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Note added at 1 hr 30 mins (2004-10-17 14:25:58 GMT)
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FYI - Sometimes it is also spelled \"manyth\".
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Note added at 1 hr 36 mins (2004-10-17 14:31:36 GMT)
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Sometimes, it is even spelled \"how(-)manieth\" (see: http://www.proz.com/?sp=h&id=334512 ). ;-))
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Note added at 17 mins (2004-10-17 13:12:27 GMT)
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Or I guess you could phrase it like the first link above: \"The how manyeth president of the United States was Harry S. Truman?\".
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Note added at 1 hr 30 mins (2004-10-17 14:25:58 GMT)
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FYI - Sometimes it is also spelled \"manyth\".
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Note added at 1 hr 36 mins (2004-10-17 14:31:36 GMT)
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Sometimes, it is even spelled \"how(-)manieth\" (see: http://www.proz.com/?sp=h&id=334512 ). ;-))
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
sarahl (X)
6 mins
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Thanks Sarah.
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| agree |
Hacene
9 mins
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Thanks Hacene.
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| disagree |
cmwilliams (X)
: I don't think 'manyeth' is an English word.// And I hope it doesn't come into use because of some references on Google, one of which concerns a website for 'constructed language' where anyone can add whatever they like!!
35 mins
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It might not be an English word, and it is certainly not a 'normal' American word, but I have heard it 'many a time' (it has even been used in the House of Commons, see: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmstand/h/...
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| disagree |
IanW (X)
: Are you serious, Derek? /// Elegantly ... ??? :-) //// By the way, we say "umpteenth" in Ireland too - and in the UK, possibly in the whole English-speaking world
40 mins
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This time I really am serious: If this isn't a word, then it should be, if not for anything else, than to deal with this particular problem elegantly. :-) // Okay, so strike that. How about "to reflect actual usage"? ;-)
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| neutral |
jebeen
: I have not come across the word 'manyeth' in English.
44 mins
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But have you heard it before? I have. :-)
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| disagree |
Marcus Malabad
: Derek, show me solid linguistic evidence for 'manyeth' (even dictionaries from the 17th c) and I'll believe ya man!
1 hr
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I make no claim of having evidence - I've just heard enough times that it popped into my head when I saw this question (I can't help myself). Call it nonsense or call it modern usage - call it what you will; I've heard people say it (Is 'ya' a word?). ;-)
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| disagree |
J. Leo (X)
: Americans sometimes do use this '-th' construction when "Shakespearianizing" (my word?) out of sarcasism about British English or insecurity about AmE, but this isn't correct in this context. Not with me. Your interpretation maybe?
1 hr
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Oh my, I seem to have inflamed some emotions with this one. That was not my intention. // Probably... :-)
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Terry Gilman
: Think the asker's own question is better. (How-) Manyeth was used in my family along with umpteenth (parents expressing exasperation) and is colloquial, perhaps peculiar to New England, as "wicked" once was, but nothing to get riled or be insecure about.
1 hr
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"If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times: ..." I don't think these expressions are locally confined to the Northeast - I grew up in the West & heard them all the time ('umpteenth' too). I never noticed the apparent sarcasm, but it's all good.
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| disagree |
airmailrpl
: sounds almost as bad as dragging your fingernails acroos a blackboard
19 hrs
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+6
1 hr
What was Harry S. Truman's numerical order among U.S. presidents?
'Numerical order' is the correct term for a list. Rank and position are vague and open to other possible interpretations.
Among is US English.
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Note added at 1 hr 23 mins (2004-10-17 14:19:12 GMT)
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Mentioning \'...of the 43 presidents...\' makes the question static and may be dated after 2 November 2004.
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Note added at 1 hr 59 mins (2004-10-17 14:54:34 GMT)
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forgot to write \'Thanks Derek\'.
Among is US English.
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Note added at 1 hr 23 mins (2004-10-17 14:19:12 GMT)
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Mentioning \'...of the 43 presidents...\' makes the question static and may be dated after 2 November 2004.
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Note added at 1 hr 59 mins (2004-10-17 14:54:34 GMT)
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forgot to write \'Thanks Derek\'.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Melanie Nassar
32 mins
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Thanks armaat
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| agree |
Derek Gill Franßen
: This would be more mainstream and flexible (IMHO). :-)
34 mins
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It seems that the more mainstream we use English, the greater the understanding among all who use English, especially those speaking International English.
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| agree |
Terry Gilman
: yes, accessible to most readers I would think
50 mins
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Thanks Terry.
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| agree |
Refugio
1 hr
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Gracias Ruth
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| agree |
cmwilliams (X)
2 hrs
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Thanks CM
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| agree |
sarahl (X)
6 hrs
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Thanks Sarah
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19 hrs
airmailrpl
Brazil
Brazil
Native in English
&
English
Brazil
Technical - Fast - good price - accurate
Native in: English (Variant: US) 
, Portuguese (Variant: Brazilian)
Works in: English to Portuguese, Portuguese to English, English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
32
Where does Harry S. Truman fit into the US Presidential Succession
Where does Harry S. Truman fit into the US Presidential Succession?
Discussion
I am an answerer more than asker, and highly appreciate all time and effort spent for helping askers.
The case:
This question was actually posted by a Turkish colleague in Turkish Kudoz: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/839886
It was related to the ordinal position of M. Kemal Atat�rk, the founder of Republic of Turkey. I answered the question exactly as I posted here �What number?...�
And I gave a couple of US based links to support my answer. After some discussions with no relevance here, the Asker graded my answer as the most helpful.
The Judgment:
Nevertheless, an experienced colleague disagreed (post-grading), and claimed that my answer is �utterly wrong.� I warned my colleague stating that peers should refrain from hasty conclusions. Nevertheless, as if this is not enough, he reiterated his judgment in a forum topic, this time saying, �Anyway, the Asker had chosen the wrong answer. Those who watch American movies know well what the correct answer is.�
The Appeal:
So I took the challenge, and decided to refer the case to you, native speakers of English, who, after all, are best to judge.
And the Verdict:
My own answer, as pointed out by cbolton (�you've already answered your own question!) received the highest number of �agrees.� Of these 10 confirmations (including the answerer), 7 are native English speakers. Therefore, and somehow humorously, I am grading my own answer as the most helpful by majority votes!
The Conclusion:
All the answers, discussions and comments here clearly show that there are more than one possible answers to such a simple question. And this is tantamount to saying that there is no royal road to translating a source expression into another language. Any expression can be paraphrased in numerous ways all of which point to the one and same thing. And we, as erring humans, should be extremely careful especially when �disagree�ing with another�s answer.
Can I construct the question as:
"What number president was H.S. Truman?"