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Ses an uden yderligere.
May 11, 2020 08:01
4 yrs ago
12 viewers *
Danish term

påtager sig juridisk og økonomisk at indestå for,

Danish to English Law/Patents Human Resources
Context

Det forbydes XXX som udbyder af internet at formidle adgang for sine kunder til de internettjenester, som hjemmesiden YYY aktuelt giver adgang til. XXX påbydes at implementere en teknisk løsning, eksempelvis en DNS blokering, der er egnet til at forhindre adgang for XXX’ kunder til de internettjenester, som hjemmesiden YYY aktuelt giver adgang til, samt til andre hjemmesider, der giver adgang til samme internettjeneste, og som RettighedsAlliancen i overensstemmelse med Code of Conduct gør XXX udtrykkelig bekendt med, idet RettighedsAlliancen i den forbindelse påtager sig juridisk og økonomisk at indestå for, at sådanne øvrige hjemmesider giver adgang til den internettjeneste, som denne afgørelse vedrører.

If I understand right, RettighedsAlliance guarantees that these other websites give access to the Internet service, but why juridisk og økonomiskt?

Thanks
Proposed translations (English)
3 -3 give a legal and financial undertaking to make... ('procurar que')

Discussion

Helen Johnson May 16, 2020:
I know you're being sarky (about GT) Chris but, having just seen GT turn "belastande" into "taxpayer", I'd be thankful you hadn't ;).
Christopher Schröder May 12, 2020:
Perhaps I should’ve gone into legal translation, I could just lie back and run everything through Google Translate, context and common sense be damned...
Thomas T. Frost May 12, 2020:
Nobody is claiming there's a negative RA has to vouch that the list of URLs they provide to XXX, for blocking, meets the criterion, which is that such URLs provide access to YYY (which, we must presume, distributes copyright-infringing contents), directly or indirectly. If RA gets the list wrong, they are legally and financially liable. That's what it means. If you look up what RA is, you'll most certainly find that it's absolutely not their role to provide access to anything but to somehow monitor that intellectual property rights are not infringed.
Adrian MM. May 12, 2020:
There is no negative ... and it is disingenous to read one into the phrase ---- indestå for, at sådanne øvrige hjemmesider giver and not *ikke*giver adgang til den internettjeneste.

- besides which no one so far has come up with a viable alternative translation to vouch for - and it's not claim, either.
Thomas T. Frost May 12, 2020:
Indicative, not subjunctive Adrian, you seem to be stuck in an interpretation of 'at sådanne øvrige hjemmesider giver adgang til den internettjeneste, som denne afgørelse vedrører' as a subjunctive, whereas it is intended as an indicative. The trouble is that in a virtually subjunctive-free language as Danish, you can't always see the difference without analysing the context. But as RA is supposed to point out which URLs to block, we can safely conclude that the intention is not to oblige RA to make such URLs available. It would make the whole sentence nonsensical.
Adrian MM. May 12, 2020:
notarial certifiable liability >' they need to put their money where their mouth is. Which I too am prepared to do ;-)' Good thing, too if a Notary Public had to attest the translation into English, even as a relay or bridging language into Spanish as *true and faithful* to the source-text and original, literal language, even if misleading. I used to advise such City of London firms whether a translation was such and not a rewrite of the original-
Christopher Schröder May 12, 2020:
Adrian, there is quite simply a difference between what you have written and what the Danish says. You have RA undertaking to make these websites provide access. In the Danish, RA is saying that these websites already provide access, which is the problem, and the court is saying they need to put their money where their mouth is. Which I too am prepared to do ;-)
Thomas T. Frost May 12, 2020:
Why financial and legal Chris has already explained it. This is a case where a literal interpretation of the words will end up with the wrong meaning. Google Translate also falls into the trap. RA tells an ISP to block certain websites because these sites make some banned content available directly or indirectly. But what if RA got it wrong in one case and a legitimate URL was accidentally blocked? That's where the legal and financial liability is relevant.
Marta Riosalido (asker) May 12, 2020:
Thanks to all of you. And yes, Chris, your suggestion sounds very logical.
Adrian MM. May 12, 2020:
@ Chris S. Please read the question carefully: '.... but why juridisk og økonomiskt?' - which I have answered with legally and financially and others, alos glossing over the ramifications of økonomiskt have repeated, plus your comment adds nothing to the asker's own interpretation of the meaning.
Christopher Schröder May 12, 2020:
Adrian, you aren't seeing the wood for the trees here. Think about what RA do... The Danish may share a few letters with the Tagalog word for pineapple but that doesn't mean it's all about fruit ;-) Marta, RA is taking financial and legal responsibility for its assertion that these other sites are also providing access to Spanish footie.

Proposed translations

-3
40 mins

give a legal and financial undertaking to make... ('procurar que')

----other websites give access

I believe in law and in 'pocket' means a doubl-eedged covenant.

I am assuming økonomisk - econónmicamente means financially and not in actual practice or 'according to the tenor' of the covenant cf. wirtschaftlich in DEU.

I also think indestå means *vouching* that a third party does something, such as in ESP 'procurar que...' - the precise force of which in Spanish has been subject to a legal dispute, namely in a land sale contract into ENG: seek or use endeavours to see that vs. (the UK legal clients' insistence) make the seller etc. clear off registered land charges.
Example sentence:

In a finance or property law context, in some cases, an agreement or promise to do or provide something, or to refrain from doing or providing something, which is meant to be binding on the party giving the undertaking.

Reference:

http://www.ifm.li/files/attachments/Directive_95_26_EC.pdf

Peer comment(s):
disagree Christopher Schröder : I don’t think that’s what the sentence means. It’s taking on liability.
50 mins
Exactly & a circular argument. There are two strands: the påtage sig as the undertaking and the 'double-up' of indestå for (Bailey: vouch for or guarantee) cf. Einstandsrecht in DEU as a warranty to ensure that other home pages have access. Pls. re-read.
disagree Thomas T. Frost : The whole point is that such sites must not be available, so it would make no sense to undertake to make them available./What does German have to do with this? No, not 'refrain from'. Focus on the context instead of the words.
2 hrs
I wonder whether you are reading indestå for - right & not reading 'refrain from' into it.// Pls. read the question carefully: ... 'but why juridisk og økonomiskt?'. The asker doesn't ask for a re-interpretation of the rest, despite vouch-for indestå for.
disagree Michael Davies : As I understand 'påtager sig juridisk og økonomisk at indestå for' means that RA accepts the legal and financial consequences of (claiming) that the web pages concerned give access to the (illegal) internet services concerned..
22 hrs
The asker's question was: ' ..but why juridisk og økonomiskt' - you have adopted my answer of legally and financially, plus you have glossed over the meaning of 'indestå for' by putting the trans. of (claiming) in brackets & contrary to dictionary defs.
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