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Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

Schullandheim

English translation:

rural study centre

Added to glossary by Alexander Schleber (X)
Jun 4, 2016 17:00
7 yrs ago
7 viewers *
German term

Schullandheim

German to English Other Education / Pedagogy
Part of a list of public institutions in Bavaria, including

"...Einrichtungen für Kinder und Jugendliche, Schulen und schulische Einrichtungen, Schullandheime, ....

Any ideas?
TIA
Proposed translations (English)
2 +1 rural study centre
3 +2 school expedition centre
3 +2 School retreat hostel
3 +1 Outward bound centre
3 completion center
Change log

Jun 6, 2016 20:30: Alexander Schleber (X) Created KOG entry

Discussion

David Williams Jun 6, 2016:
It's no skin off my nose but it does seem rather odd for the asker to actually ask me to post my suggestion as an answer and then not to choose it, or award any points.
Lancashireman Jun 6, 2016:
Reminder of criteria for closing questions "Close questions by selecting the answer deemed most helpful..." http://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_asking/2.4#2.4
No mention in the KudoZ rules of 'acceptable'. Hence, poor choice of word.
Alexander Schleber (X) (asker) Jun 6, 2016:
Hello Lancashireman Every entry is helpful --> if only in helping one to make up one's mind on what is (IMO) right in the context. Sorry - my message was certainly not intended as a putdown and I did preface it as "Thanks to all".
Lancashireman Jun 6, 2016:
"Not acceptable..." Not even slightly helpful? This sort of comment/verdict doesn't exactly accord with the spirit of KudoZ.
Alexander Schleber (X) (asker) Jun 6, 2016:
Thanks to all There have been "very many" message on this term, but unfortunately no answers for scoring that are acceptable.

The best came at the end from Wendy --> rural study centre. Please enter this so I can grade.
Wendy Streitparth Jun 6, 2016:
Another option would maybe be a "rural study centre", whereby the studies are not necessarily of a rural nature (see music, architecture etc.).
http://joinus.kes.hants.sch.uk/our-school/sites/lovaton

It is used as a base for the Duke of Edinburgh Award as well as for academic study weekends and fieldwork.
Björn Vrooman Jun 5, 2016:
If Alexander is still not sure... ...he can visit this masterpiece of website design...
http://www.schullandheim-bayern.de/index.html
...and click on Schullandheime to see what they look like and where they are located in Bavaria.
Björn Vrooman Jun 5, 2016:
German meaning Here you got the explanation from the Schullandheim website:
http://www.schullandheim.de/umwelt.html
- Yes, there is this nature study-type approach. But:

"Schullandheime wurden bei ihrer Entstehung als außerschulischer Lernort eingerichtet und waren ursprünglich für die Schülerinnen und Schüler der zugehörigen Schule konzipiert. [Note: That's what David referred to; no longer applicable, though.]
Heute ist diese Art der Bindung an eine Schule nicht mehr so restriktiv. Schullandheime können unterschiedliche Gruppen aufnehmen und bieten viele Möglichkeiten:
> Spielplätze und große Freiflächen für Kitas und Grundschulen
> Sporthallen, Rasen- und Hartplätze für Vereine
> Sporthallen für Vereine und Chöre
> Musikzimmer für Orchester und Musiker
> Gut ausgestattete Seminarräume für Projektarbeiten von Gemeinden und Tutantengruppen"
http://www.schullandheim.de/gruppen.html

You could say they needed the money, I suppose. Or the space at least.
Björn Vrooman Jun 5, 2016:
From your first link:
"Activities

Rock climbing, abseiling, mountaineering, hill walking, caving, canoeing, kayaking, raft building, zip wire and high ropes course, gorge walking, bushcraft and orienteering. Many of these outdoor activities, including problem solving, involve teamwork as well as individual challenge."

I wish we had had such a program.

"Field Studies

Field Studies include work with GCSE and A’ level geography students doing environmental studies such as stream and river studies and town studies."

Wendy and I already pointed to "field centre." See discussion posts and links below. The FSC "is an environmental education charity."

"state-run boarding school in the country used for school trips"
I guess you meant "countryside." But what is it supposed to mean? You move out all boarding school students while others are staying there?
Axel Dittmer Jun 5, 2016:
"field studies centre"
https://www.bristol.gov.uk/schools-learning-early-years/dean...
http://www.scottsdalehigh.tas.edu.au/FSC.htm
http://www.field-studies-council.org/

or a longer version:

state-run boarding school in the country used for school trips (Schullandheim)
Lancashireman Jun 5, 2016:
Retreat "Sometimes you need a Christian retreat or holiday alone for physical or spiritual renewal..."
https://leeabbey.org.uk/devon/
What a marvellous concept for boisterous schoolchildren! Perhaps more suitable as a refuge for stressed teachers?
David Williams Jun 5, 2016:
Yes, I agree entirely In my experience, German schoolkids generally go on school trips (usually a whole class or year/grade) once a year, either to a Schullandheim or to a Youth Hostel, (although this is NOT the same as "Klassenfahrt"). The Schullandheim is basically like a Youth Hostel, but belongs to a town and is reserved for use by its schoolchildren (and occasionally othe groups) and has nothing to do with the International YHA. This seems, as far as I know, to be a uniquely German concept, making it as impossible to translate as Spätlze or Strudel.
Björn Vrooman Jun 5, 2016:
@Lancashireman We were only talking about school + hostel (not "hostel" on its own), as in:
http://www.dunoongrammar.argyll-bute.sch.uk/school-hostel
http://www.orkney.gov.uk/OIC-News/new-term-opening-for-schoo...
https://www.syha.org.uk/where-to-stay/islands/kirkwall.aspx

But agreed, that may as well be misleading. Somehow, I think whatever you do, you're going to end up with some imprecise description.

As you said: "Pupils studying languages were not invited along" - that had never been the case during my time in school (I did study two languages and chose to drop Biology after tenth grade). And the US version isn't limited to school in any way (lots of adult programs):
http://parks.ny.gov/environment/nature-centers/3/details.asp...
http://www.ci.ankeny.ia.us/Home/Components/FacilityDirectory...

And then you get something like the following:
http://www.internate-bayern.com/schulen/staatliches-landschu...

That's a boarding school(!) in Bavaria. It may be both: boarding schools and school trip accommodation:
http://www.yha.org.uk/school-trips

It almost feels like a catch-22.
Lancashireman Jun 5, 2016:
Re 'hostel' minus 'youth' You might want to avoid this because of modern connotations (i.e. for the homeless). The only references I can find to 'school hostels' are to residential accommodation attached to schools in India.
Björn Vrooman Jun 5, 2016:
David, just go ahead :)

I'd like to know what you think of

"field trip/school trip accommodation" (US: accommodations)?

Just to keep it a bit more neutral (considering the different solutions based on the EN variant chosen).
David Williams Jun 5, 2016:
Thanks Alexander I wouldn't want to steal Björn's glory. He suggested it, after all!
Alexander Schleber (X) (asker) Jun 5, 2016:
Hello David Sounds good --> why not neter it as an answer?
David Williams Jun 5, 2016:
I agree with Björn Vrooman Based on my experience of Schullandheime and trips to them, "school hostel" is the most fitting description. None of the other terms are really applicable.
Björn Vrooman Jun 5, 2016:
I assumed Wendy's discussion post referred to my links posted at the beginning of the discussion?

Maybe it was just our luck, Wendy, that we had our biology teacher tagging along when we went on a Klassenfahrt.

However, if you take a look at http://www.schullandheim.de/index.html, I can see nothing else than biology involved, basically. As they say (see below): "Unterricht von Stadtkindern in der Natur."

"completion center" can't be right - "completion" is for "high school completion," not primarily about outdoor activities.

I do have a real objection to"rural training centre":
http://www.wildgooseruraltraining.org/
http://www.organicguide.ie/node/91
http://www.pacificfarmers.com/tutu-rural/

This is about agriculture, farming, and planting - has virtually nothing to do with Schullandheim.

You have three choices:
1. School hostel (http://www.waicol.co.nz/hostel.php) - runs the risk of having too broad of a meaning.
2. Outdoor education centre (http://www.burrenoec.com/) - runs the risk of equating a school learning trip with outdoor sports.
3. Field centre (see below) - runs the risk of being limited to 1/2 subjects.

Still, Lancashireman found a different link for 2.
Alexander Schleber (X) (asker) Jun 5, 2016:
I like Wendy's contribution, but I have finally decided to go with "rural training centre" as being most appropriate in the context. If there are any real objections, I would love to hear them.
Wendy Streitparth Jun 5, 2016:
Basically it is a field centre, but in England these are used primarily for Geography.
David Williams Jun 4, 2016:
Yes, precisely. Something like a Youth Hostel, but owned and reserved for use by one town's schools.
Björn Vrooman Jun 4, 2016:
Not arguing that, David. I merely offered an approximation based on the following:
"Als die Schullandheim-Idee zu Beginn des 20. Jahrhunderts geboren wurde, ging es um den Unterricht von Stadtkindern in der Natur. So entstanden viele Schullandheime außerhalb der großen Städte. Teilweise als Dorfschulen angelegt, wurden sie anfänglich als Schullandheimarbeit immer für längere Aufenthalte genutzt."
http://www.schullandheim.de/standorte.html

If I ever remember having been in one, then maybe for a Klassenfahrt, but that's more like a hostel stay than anything else.
David Williams Jun 4, 2016:
The real problem here is that the concept of the Schullandheim, as it exists in Germany, simply doesn't exist in England.
Björn Vrooman Jun 4, 2016:
@Alexander Does this help by any chance:
http://www.trca.on.ca/school-programs/facilities-and-program...
http://www.oakraven.org/about-us/
http://www.newbarn.co.uk/

Not sure which EN variant you're looking for.
freekfluweel Jun 4, 2016:
live and learn resort https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schullandheim

Proposed translations

+1
2 days 2 hrs
Selected

rural study centre

As requested!
Peer comment(s):
agree Lancashireman : Yes, a good suggestion. Not sure 'study' quite captures the mood - I'm sure there will be fun and games too. Rural is good for 'Land-' (see above). I don't know why everything ends up a 'centre' in English, especially when it's really an annex (see above)
1 hr
Many thanks, Andrew. I think annex becomes a slight problem when it is not just an annex to one building and here it is available to many schools and groups.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks to all, also for the extesniver discussion of all the ins and outs and the references. This one fits best in the wider context of the translation."
+1
18 mins

Outward bound centre

May be a bit outdated but I offer it as an idea...
Peer comment(s):
neutral Armorel Young : Outward Bound centres are run by the Outward Bound Trust, so are something very specific - I don't think this works as a generic name for outdoor activity centres.
1 hr
neutral Darin Fitzpatrick : What Armorel Young said. This is a brand name.
1 day 18 hrs
agree Lancashireman : I think you could get away with this 'in inverted commas' or ("speech marks"). Maybe Outward Bound-style establishment.
2 days 15 mins
Something went wrong...
8 hrs

completion center

Ein Schullandheim ist in Deutschland ein schulergänzender Lernort, an dem Schüler und Lehrer in Form von Projektwochen ein bis drei Wochen vertiefend an lehrplanbezogenen Inhalten arbeiten.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2016-06-05 01:32:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

madisoncollege.edu/high-school-completion-center

Special focus on 5.09 HSED program and curriculum; Assist students with other Madison ... How do you sign up for the High School Completion Center?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2016-06-05 01:34:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

da haben wir's

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2016-06-05 01:36:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

war ein langer Weg, aber ich denke wir haben's geschafft
Peer comment(s):
neutral Lancashireman : Es geht weiter.
1 day 16 hrs
Something went wrong...
+2
3 hrs

school expedition centre

Nick Veevers and Pete Allison wrestled with the same conundrum when writing their biography of Kurt Hahn. Here on Page 4:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=QxgIH022UXIC&pg=PA4&lpg=...

I think it works rather well - a three-part EN noun phrase for a three-part DE noun phrase.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2016-06-05 02:33:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Here's another one I just made up:
school rural annex
Schul- > school
-land- > rural
-heim > annex

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/annex
NOUN: A building joined to or associated with a main building, providing additional space or accommodation

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2016-06-05 12:25:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Here is a reasonably close equivalent:
http://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/education/outdoor-and-envi...
Hagg Farm Outdoor Education Centre is a well regarded and high quality residential facility in the beautiful and inspiring Peak District National Park.

We work closely with schools and groups from Nottinghamshire and further afield to provide individually tailored courses for young people and adults to experience quality outdoor learning experiences. Programmes aim to enrich the curriculum and help learners reach their potential through positive engagement with the education process, increasing confidence, group awareness, healthy activity and fun. The centre is also available for self led groups throughout the year.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs (2016-06-05 15:46:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The term 'training' becomes appropriate once children have left school. At the Schullandheim stage, they are still completing their 'education'.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs (2016-06-05 16:06:40 GMT)
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Re Björn's comment: "runs the risk of equating a school learning trip with outdoor sports"
The school where I taught sent groups to Hagg Farm. The trips were indeed run by the Geography Department. Pupils studying languages were not invited along :-( There were organised lessons alongside outdoor activities. No sports as such.
Peer comment(s):
agree Björn Vrooman : Depending on the EN variant you choose, I guess there's some risk involved (in IE, option 3 is for outdoor sports, apparently), but if "field centre" is too limited and "hostel" too broad, option 3 will be the most apt choice.//Thx! See discussion post.
19 hrs
Thanks. See addenda.
agree Noelle Crist-See : It's always a school class, and also has the objective of bonding the pupils or students together because they stay with the same classmates for the entire stay at school - 4-6 years!
33 days
Something went wrong...
+2
1 day 11 mins

School retreat hostel

See discussion.

Alternatively, just 'school hostel' or 'school retreat'.
Peer comment(s):
agree seehand : maybe Landschulheim (rural hostel for school children or for school field trips) leave the German it's rather unique as you already mentioned
20 hrs
Landschulheim? That's a new one on me!
agree Vera H. : I agree with leaving the German term and adding the translation as an explanation
22 hrs
Thanks
neutral Lancashireman : Sorry, David. Asker should not have encouraged your to post 'hostel' as the concept of Schullandheim extends beyond accommodation to include educational activities. 'Retreat' is totally inappropriate for teenagers.
1 day 19 mins
True
Something went wrong...
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