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Griffbeleuchtung

Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

Bühne / Gestaltungsbühne / Banderole (rare)

English translation:

signature band / signature bar / footer

Added to glossary by Dr Andrew Read
Sep 24, 2014 21:56
9 yrs ago
9 viewers *
German term

Banderole (here)

German to English Marketing Advertising / Public Relations Answers for US English preferred.
This is in a style guide for ads that will appear in print (in magazines etc.) outside Germany. I'll try to describe the context. There's an image of an ad and each design element is labelled with a number. Filling most of the ad is the image of the product and a box top left for the copy. At the bottom is a strip that is simply labelled 'Banderole'.

Other times in the ST, the term appears in contexts like the following:
"Die Banderole befindet sich immer am unteren Rand der Anzeige und schliesst mit deisem ab. Sie geht ueber die gesamte Breite der Anzeige. Die Hoehe der Banderole ist [...] fest definiert und darf nicht veraendert werden : 29 mm."

I translate often in this field but haven't come across 'Banderole' before in this context.

What's the standard term in advertising for this? US English references preferred. Thanks!
Proposed translations (English)
2 +1 signature band
3 +2 banner, streamer
4 +1 banner (footer)

Discussion

Björn Vrooman Sep 30, 2014:
PS Just found BASF pictures:
https://brandweb.basf.com/portal/basf/de/dt.jsp?setCursor=1_...

Just what I thought - they're talking about something that resembles a magazine "Banderole" in shape, but it's not even what Andrew described to us here.

Thus, I stick to what I said earlier: The use of the term is wrong or misleading at the very least. I think Alison has a really strong case here for "Bühne".
Björn Vrooman Sep 30, 2014:
Banderole - BASF Actually, there is no picture on the page or something. I looked up another "Banderole" + "Corporate Design" (not many to find on my side) and it shows:

"Zusammen bilden beide Hälften eine Kreisform (a), in dessen Mitte das Logo
auf einer metalischen Banderole platziert wird."
http://www.wire.de/cipp/md_wiretube/lib/all/lob/return_downl...

But: This one is in the middle of the page, just where a normal "Titelbanderole" would be on the outside (link includes animation):

http://www.axelspringer-mediapilot.de/werbeform/Ad-Specials-...

I think BASF got too carried away here - just to show you a picture of a typical Banderole in advertisement (if it's not a web ad or the one described above):
http://www.fmk-web.de/kunden/fmk-food-factory/dietz/corporat...
Björn Vrooman Sep 30, 2014:
@Alison I think that sounds great!

Here's another example:
"Ein weiteres wichtiges Gestaltungselement ist die weiße Malteser Bühne. Diese Bühne ist ein klar definierter Weiß-
raum, der garantiert, dass das Malteser Logo immer auf Weiß steht und so seine volle Wirkung entfalten kann. Die
Bühne erstreckt sich stets über die ganze Breite einer Seite. Die Höhe der Malteser Bühne ist variabel, sie muss aber
auf Titelseiten mindestens 8 Einheiten des Grundlinienrasters und darf höchstens die Hälfte einer Seite betragen,
auf Innenseiten umfasst sie in der Höhe mindestens 2 Einheiten des Grundlinienrasters."
http://www.designtagebuch.de/cd-manuals/Malteser_CorporateDe...

Have a look at page 22 of the document. There, you'll find not only the text I quoted but a difference to "Balken" and an illustration.

I'd support that!
Alison MacG Sep 30, 2014:
@Björn - what do you think of these? Die Bühne
Die Bühne besteht aus 3 Elementen (Logo, Claim und Internetadresse), die im Bezug zum Gestaltungsraster immer gleich plaziert werden. Der Fruit Orange Fond passt sich in der Breite den jeweiligen Printmedien an.
4 Bühne
Die Bühne wird wie im Punkt zuvor angelegt und befindet sich im unterem Anzeigenbereich http://www.becking-kaffee.de/pic-presse024.pdf

Die Gestaltungsbühne
Die Bühne ist das Hauptelement der Kommunikation. Sie besteht aus dem Logo, einer gelben Banderole mit rotem Rand (der Outline) sowie dem Claim, der immer links des Logos gesetzt wird. http://marketing.asb-bremen.de/gestaltungsrichtlinien.pdf

And then there is always:
BASF-Banderole - Die Banderole ist das wirkungsvollste Gestaltungselement im Corporate Design der BASF. http://www.basf.com/group/corporate/de/about-basf/the-brand/...
BASF Banner: The banner is the most distinctive visual design element in the BASF corporate design. http://www.basf.com/group/corporate/en/about-basf/the-brand/...
Björn Vrooman Sep 30, 2014:
Just a few German links... ...as a starting point: Googling "Corporate Design" gets you enough hits in German as well.

Fibonacci-Balken as color strip:
http://www.dfg.de/download/pdf/service/bildarchiv/cd_stilrah...

Starting at 5.2, you'll see Adressblock mentioned:
http://www.designtagebuch.de/cd-manuals/HHLA_CD_Manual.pdf

But most of them look like this:
http://www.teachsam.de/pro/pro_werbung/werbesprache/anzeigen...

One company example:
http://corporate-design.hannover-rueck.de/20_druck/80_anzeig...

As I said, only content mentioned, not shapes. My "Balken" example was from http://www.tk.de/centaurus/servlet/contentblob/99628/Datei/2...

Please see page 27/28 there

Most companies don't really seem to mention something, as they will just show you pictures, so even the illiterate designers among us know what to do. May sound mean at first, but you should look at some Corporate Designs that have basically only pictures and no text anymore...
Björn Vrooman Sep 30, 2014:
@Andrew If I knew that, I would have already told you :) I promise I'll look it up later (need to get some work done still). The only solution so far is "Balken" (which is bar").

Another option is to add something like in dictionaries: "rare" or whatever. But let's see whether I can still come up with something.
Dr Andrew Read (asker) Sep 30, 2014:
@Björn @ others: what's the correct DE term...? ... For this? We all agree Banderole is being used incorrectly but if I have the right term I can select and update the glossary properly... :-)
Alison MacG Sep 30, 2014:
@ Helen Thanks, that's good to know (it's difficult to narrow the search criteria down enough to find much evidence for banner used in that way when all the hits are for banner ads!)
Björn Vrooman Sep 30, 2014:
Pt 3 C) I'd also like to point out that nowadays, you probably adopt the name your graphics program assigns to it. That's what you do with other IT stuff as well.

If you use Photoshop, then the elements of your composition get their strip/band/banner/label/box/bar/block from Photoshop terminology. Since I'm not a Photoshop wiz, I can't provide you with the exact word :)

I can only tell you: When I was skimming through the pages on ad style/specs, I got the distinct impression that everyone seems to "cook his or her own soup", as Germans like to say.
Björn Vrooman Sep 30, 2014:
continued... One agency's brochure was studded with the word "Banderole" - but it had nothing to do with what you describe.

There are three main uses:

1) As a Banderole Ad
2) As a wrap band (cigarettes, etc.)
3) As a label around a three-dimensional object

There was, in fact, only one example resembling what you described and that was a bottle from Fair Trade - which also means we're talking about a label on a 3D object, which isn't really related to what you describe and the label doesn't have to be "at the bottom" either.

The German word you are actually looking for is "Balken" (see, e.g., Techniker Krankenkasse), which also doesn't have to be directly at the bottom but best describes the shape. The one from the TK example even has just about the same size (30mm)!

Thus, although I'd readily agree with Alison's references, I don't know how beneficial any glossary entry can be here? If it has been used incorrectly in German, a glossary entry may only obfuscate that fact and will have people believe that when they translate from English to German (the other way around), they can indeed use that word!
Helen Shiner Sep 30, 2014:
@Alison MacG In my experience, it is quite normal to refer to a strip at the bottom of an ad as a banner. The term does not refer exclusively to an ad in its own right.
Björn Vrooman Sep 30, 2014:
@Andrew and Alison I'd like to also add a couple of points still. I'll try to back them up with links later, just want to give you the short version first - I had to deinstall my Mozilla, which means I don't have access to my bookmarks right now (something that makes me somewhat mad now, but I can't help it).

A) By saying only "signature" I was probably missing an explanation: I thought of Andrew's sentence part: "each design element is labelled with a number."

Now, if it were I who had to do the illustration showing these elements, I would indeed only label them based on content. In fact, that is how ANCAP and I Love New York are doing it: They stipulate colors and other things, but they don't specify element types: they only name content (tagline, etc.).

B) Alison already posted the Airways link, which I actually wanted to do in order to support her statement. So, yes you find that one more than just a few times, although Pearson, for example, calls its strip "bar" only - no "signature" somewhere.

As Alison has already pointed out, the question is whether the German term is actually correct. I looked for it again and believe me: I didn't find anything - nada - niente.
Alison MacG Sep 30, 2014:
Oh dear, Andrew This is one of those occasions where it would be nice if KudoZ were simply a forum for discussion without the need for points for one so-called “answer”.
You have received lots of useful contributions and I generally agree with Björn’s arguments. The term “Banderole” appears to be used incorrectly here. None of us has been able to find another instance of it being used in this precise manner. Although there is general agreement that the usual translation is “banner”, this would normally be assumed to refer to a TYPE of ad, i.e. a banner[-style] ad, an ad in the form of a banner (as in Helen’s first reference), on a printed page or on a website, and not to PART of an ad, i.e. a banner forming a component of a complete ad. In your case, “Banderole” appears to be used as a term to describe the area/band/strip, etc. in which the signature or contact block is located. As this is always at the bottom in your case, you could do worse than “footer” - that certainly would not be incorrect.
I will post an entry for “signature band” as you ask, but I am answering your call for “an alternative term that's more commonly used for the differently-coloured strip across the bottom of a print ad”.
Dr Andrew Read (asker) Sep 27, 2014:
@Björn. No, 'signature' would be content and therefore not right here, but signature band seems to describe exactly what's talked about here and is backed up by appropriate refs.

Goodnight all! Zzzzzzz ;-)
Björn Vrooman Sep 26, 2014:
Aren't we then back to content, referring to the discussion below about "signature"?
Dr Andrew Read (asker) Sep 26, 2014:
Alison, please post this as an entry - you never know, I might select it!
Alison MacG Sep 26, 2014:
Signature band (or bar) Here are a few style guides that use this term for what you are describing.

Signature Bar
For print advertising, we have created a signature bar to contain necessary information… most importantly the logo. This area will allow the necessary “clear space” and create attention to our brand. This signature band is comprised of a straight top edge and an arc on the bottom edge.
http://www.quaintoak.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Brand-Gu...

To further identify different areas of the college, marketing materials often have signature bands of color at the bottom to quickly categorize the information as one of the following:
http://www.csmd.edu/BrandManagement/pdfs/marketingguide.pdf

Signature Band
The basic brand signature consists of:
• Color band — across the bottom of an ad, brochure, etc.:
ftp://c-98-231-179-10.hsd1.md.comcast.net/5Clients/A/AAA/AAA...
Björn Vrooman Sep 25, 2014:
@Helen I'm still going to agree with you on your answer. I simply thought I add this because if the content is specified as well (Andrew listed it below as "usually"), I believe it wouldn't be wrong.

Also, I am now pretty sure the German term isn't correct. My guess is that someone simply used the word because it resembled a Banderole, not that it actually is one.

Have a good night, Helen and Andrew!
Helen Shiner Sep 25, 2014:
@Björn But that describes a possible content, not the form. And a (footer) banner can contain other things.
Björn Vrooman Sep 25, 2014:
@Andrew I don't believe it. I think I just found something (just to add it here):

"Signature
An effective advertisement should always include a signature. The signature is where the business name, logo and contact information such as an address, phone number and web site address are located in the ad.
Placement of the signature is most often located in the lower right hand corner of the advertisement."
https://ag.tennessee.edu/cpa/Information Sheets/cpa178.pdf

"The contact or signature of an ad may appear anywhere in the ad although it is usually near the bottom. It consists of one or more of:

Logo
Advertiser Name
Address
Phone Number
Map or Driving Directions
Web Site Address"
http://desktoppub.about.com/od/ads/a/ad_parts.htm

"Advertising: (1) Name of the advertiser as it appears (usually) in the bottom part of an ad"
http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/signature.html
Dr Andrew Read (asker) Sep 25, 2014:
Hi, yes it is like the white band in the second reference. As you say, it's hard to find a categorical reference where an advertising style guide refers to that white lower strip. Thanks to both you, Ramey and Helen for all your contributions on this. :-)
Björn Vrooman Sep 25, 2014:
One of the links I posted earlier had this to say:
"Includes standard fielded data and additional ad copy, approximately 14 lines with approximately 60 characters per line. A logo can be added ad no additional charge. Additional lines may be added for $10 per line. Response Manager tool, plus 30-day mobile texting activation."
http://hearstmediahouston.com/?id=print-ad-specs

There's the "copy" and then only "lines", nothing more.

I guess you mean the white space at the bottom of the ad, like in the following picture?
http://www.arrowprintinginc.com/file-prep-101-start-here/ble...

Best wishes
Björn Vrooman Sep 25, 2014:
@Andrew Thank you for opening the question to non-members! In contrast to posting for jobs, I never really understood what purpose this box has.

And thank you very much for the added explanation.

"For the company concerned it usually contains the company name, a logo and a slogan."

That was actually one of the options I considered when skimming through the pages; I probably should have another look. I think none of them calls it Banderole in German when it comes to print ads. It's more like the cans in this picture:
http://www.kolbe-coloco.de/produkte/warenausstattung/bandero...

Maybe you'll find the following link interesting:
http://www.tampabay.com/media-kit/pdf/tampabaytimes_printspe...

They refer to both "banner" and "streamer" regarding the type of ad, but it says nothing about Banderole somewhere.

Here you have the New York Times ad specs (you said US English):
http://nytmediakit.com/specs

But I can only find "columns" on here (or "inserts" and "spread").
Dr Andrew Read (asker) Sep 25, 2014:
Further clarification My, this has caused some intense discussion! To add fuel to the fire, here is one further point of clarification...
The 'Banderole' in question on these print ads is a lighter-coloured strip at the bottom. For the company concerned it usually contains the company name, a logo and a slogan.

I was 'forced' to translate this as banderole because of the TM, but I'm leaving this open a little longer to see if we get a conclusive answer... :-)
Dr Andrew Read (asker) Sep 25, 2014:
I've opened it to non-members... ... As I had only accidentally checked the Proz members box - sorry!
Helen Shiner Sep 25, 2014:
@Björn Thank you.
Björn Vrooman Sep 25, 2014:
@Helen Yes, we have to. You get my discussion "agree" now, since I'm not allowed to agree to any of the answers :(
Helen Shiner Sep 25, 2014:
@Björn I find there are many new uses of foreign words in German that might be thought of as being incorrect. A recent one was 'roll-ups' meaning roll-up banners and not what it sounded like on first hearing: roll-up cigarettes! Andrew has the wider context. We'll have to leave it to him to work it out.
Helen Shiner Sep 25, 2014:
@Björn It was always a banner (footer if needed to distinguish from one higher up) when I commissioned print media.
Björn Vrooman Sep 25, 2014:
@Helen Understood. Just to clarify, I said: Wanted to write that yesterday. Yesterday, you hadn't said anything about "print media" yet. I know sounds confusing :)

This is how a normal German Banderole looks like:
http://www.axelspringer-mediapilot.de/werbeform/Ad-Specials-...
https://www.thieme.de/de/thieme-media/banderole-13709.htm
http://www.grasundsterne.de/referenzen/a-das-handlermagazin-...

That's why Banderole Ads span over the entire screen and the screen is not accessible until the ads shrink in size -> same function as the print one (where you have to rip it off). That's why I added: Think this has been mislabeled here.

Then again, Andrew hasn't told us what this so-called Banderole contains. Can't be advertisement (so no screamer or anything) because it is found at the bottom (!) of the ad. It's like the bottom row of the ad space. Maybe you can call it a footer, even though it's not really what I'd think of first. But haven't got the time to look up ad design programs (Photoshop and others). There are probably tutorials out there who have the terminology included.
Helen Shiner Sep 25, 2014:
@Björn My comment referred to your statement above: "We're not talking about online media."

The dictionary entry gives various options in two columns. Please also see my other link.
Björn Vrooman Sep 25, 2014:
@Helen I read all of the entries beforehand. That is actually why I posted something. Of course, I know what a footer and a banner is.

I only said:

A) I think the German word has been incorrectly used in this sentence.

B) I am not sure the Banderole serves the function of a banner here.

What this refers to here specifically, I can't say without seeing the text. The dictionary you posted a link to actually has it as banderole - one reason why I don't use bilingual ones.
Helen Shiner Sep 25, 2014:
@Björn Both Ramey and I have separately (above) made the point that the terminology applies to print media, too.
Björn Vrooman Sep 25, 2014:
"Die Banderole befindet sich immer am unteren Rand der Anzeige und schliesst mit diesem ab."

-> Banderole ist am unteren Rand der Anzeige zu finden -> And now? What for? Don't think you put a banner below an ad? How does this make sense? Would make more sense if it's a strip to which the leaflet (link below) is glued. But don't know whether that works either.

All very strange.
Björn Vrooman Sep 25, 2014:
@Helen and Ramey Agree with Tony's statement. Wanted to write that yesterday already: We're not talking about online media.

In addition:
"In vielen Fällen dient die Banderole auch als Werbemittel oder Träger von Botschaften. Die Banderole wird häufig als Werbefläche benutzt, wenn sie an einem Artikel befestigt wird. Das ist beispielsweise auch bei einem Terminkalender oder einem Notizbuch möglich, mehr als den Nutzen von Werbung hat sie in diesem Fall aber nicht. Auch Zeitschriften tragen manchmal eine Banderole, wenn sie auf eine besondere Aktion in ihrem Inneren aufmerksam machen möchten. Auf sich aufmerksam machen möchten auch andere mit ihrem Artikel und selbst auf einem Geschenk wirkt die Banderole als etwas ganz Besonderes. Das hat vielleicht die Entwickler von Webseiten dazu gebracht, Werbung auf Internetseiten wie eine Banderole mittig und einmal quer über die gesamte Breite zu installieren. Sie kann natürlich per Mausklick entfernt werden."
http://www.meinnotizbuch.de/Glossar/Banderole.html
And:
http://www.schenkelberg-medienstrategen.de/die-produkte/sond...

Last link is about a leaflet! Somehow have the feeling the source text has this mislabeled.
Helen Shiner Sep 25, 2014:
@Ramey Always keen to learn ;)
Ramey Rieger (X) Sep 25, 2014:
Ooooh Helen Now that was a many-facetted comeback! Ha, ha!
Ramey Rieger (X) Sep 25, 2014:
Don't argue just do what you think is right. Advice from my husband.
Helen Shiner Sep 25, 2014:
@TonyTK Evidence is all.
Ramey Rieger (X) Sep 25, 2014:
@Helen Yes, it is. So, we're in this together!
TonyTK Sep 25, 2014:
Yep, I get all that, I just don't think they're normally used in the specific context of print media advertising.

The other problem is that I'm up against two women. I've been married so long, I've forgotten how to win an argument with a woman.
Helen Shiner Sep 25, 2014:
@Ramey as is footer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Page_footer
Ramey Rieger (X) Sep 25, 2014:
Banner is a journalistic term, long before Internet.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/banner
TonyTK Sep 25, 2014:
Just to be clear ... My problem with banners/footers is that they're online ad formats. If I understand Andrew correctly, he's looking for a term that is used in the print segment.
TonyTK Sep 25, 2014:
Ramey: don't ... ... get me wrong. I *love* "banner ads" - but that's not what they're talking about here.
Ramey Rieger (X) Sep 25, 2014:
US English would use both terms you are no so very fond of. 'Wrap around' is nice, too. I prefer SCREAMER, because they can slap one hard when one least expects it, online, that is.
TonyTK Sep 25, 2014:
Normally a ... ... "belly band", but that tends to be higher up. The other term you see is "wraparound ad". Don't like "banderole" (or banner or streamer for that matter ...)
Ramey Rieger (X) Sep 25, 2014:
@writeaway would you post? No reason wasting good points!
Ramey Rieger (X) Sep 25, 2014:
Banner or streamer, if you want to be absolutely clear. Sometimes I replace such words if the audience is not necesarily up on the lingo.
Helen Shiner Sep 24, 2014:
@Andrew This might help: http://www.soundonsound.com/directory/RatesBanner.php They distinguish between a banner (header) and banner (footer), the latter being what your text describes. You might also find this useful, if you don't already know it: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=taeCA9_Hl2IC&pg=PA466&lpg...
Dr Andrew Read (asker) Sep 24, 2014:
I've found the answer for my translation... ... in the TM provided to me, which gives 'banderole' in English. But I've never seen this in this context in real life, so I'm leaving this open for future reference. Can anyone find some verified uses of 'banderole' in this specific context in English or an alternative term that's more commonly used for the differently-coloured strip across the bottom of a print ad?
Dr Andrew Read (asker) Sep 24, 2014:
@ writeaway.
No, it's written by the marketing dept. of a German company. I know the word is of French origin and the most common use I've seen in German is the wrapper or tube that some mail items or newspapers are delivered in.
writeaway Sep 24, 2014:
Normally it's a French word and it means banner or a streamer, even in US English. Perhaps your document is Swiss (or maybe even Austrian)?

Proposed translations

+1
5 days
Selected

signature band

Please see discussion section.

As you asked for “an alternative term that's more commonly used for the differently-coloured strip across the bottom of a print ad”, I am suggesting “signature band”.

In addition to the 3 examples I already posted in the discussion section, i.e.

Signature Bar
For print advertising, we have created a signature bar to contain necessary information… most importantly the logo. This area will allow the necessary “clear space” and create attention to our brand. This signature band is comprised of a straight top edge and an arc on the bottom edge.
http://www.quaintoak.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Brand-Gu...

To further identify different areas of the college, marketing materials often have signature bands of color at the bottom to quickly categorize the information as one of the following:
http://www.csmd.edu/BrandManagement/pdfs/marketingguide.pdf

Signature Band
The basic brand signature consists of:
• Color band — across the bottom of an ad, brochure, etc.:
ftp://c-98-231-179-10.hsd1.md.comcast.net/5Clients/A/AAA/AAA...

see also:

Signature Band – Used for all visual expressions of the company; consists of a US Blue stripe, a US red stripe and a US Light Gray stripe. (page 11)
The Signature Band should be placed at the bottom of the page. (page 16)
Online elements
Online ads are usually smaller, and research has shown that people scan (not read) on the internet; therefore, we try to keep the design as tight and clean as possible. For banners, the Signature Band can be used without the stripes to allow more space and give a cleaner look to the overall design.
The logo appears within the Signature Band. (page 46)
http://www.usairways.com/en-US/Resources/_downloads/aboutus/...

“Footer” might also be a safe option.

Print Ad Footer
http://cacbdpapps.net/marketing/AdKits/bry2014/html/fad_foot...

Finally, I did actually manage to find a couple of instances of “banner” used in this way (although one is from an originally Romanian brand now part of a French company and found on a Czech website).

This Renault Group guarantee is included on advertising media.It is placed within a banner at the base of the document.
The Renault Group signature banner is constituted: (page 10)
Max. banner height (page 37)
http://www.renault-local.cz/dealer/data/document/20110117/ad...


For the print ad, … Color includes: Banner at top and bottom: C=88 M=32 Y=100 K=23, which is the color used in the Starbucks logo.
For the online ad, … Color includes: Background: R=20 G=110 B=56, which is the same as the color used for the banner of the print ad.
http://www.csuchico.edu/jour/jtimes/fall12/images/studentspo...
Peer comment(s):
agree Björn Vrooman : Such a wealth of options forces you to agree :) Still unsure about the Banderole part, but that's nothing you can do something about right now. See discussion.
1 hr
Thanks, Björn
neutral Helen Shiner : This applies only to banners in which signature information is provided. The more generic term is banner or footer.
4 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I had to go for Alison's answer in the end because it was supported by specific references that show the terms being used in exactly the way described. Plus the further excellent research by Alison and Björn on more common German terms for this mean we can make a good addition to the glossary for everyone. I also like Helen's footer so am including that in the glossary entry. "
+2
10 hrs

banner, streamer

with her Ladyship's permission. This term makes it clear to all audiences, which is sometimes preferable to shoptalk that may be mis understood.
Peer comment(s):
agree milinad
6 mins
Many thanks!
agree Dr Lofthouse
56 mins
Thanks, Doc!
Something went wrong...
+1
11 hrs

banner (footer)

As per the refs in my discussion entry.
Peer comment(s):
agree Björn Vrooman : See discussion - I can now "officially" agree :)
13 hrs
Thanks, Björn
Something went wrong...
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