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amélioration biologique
hématomes engrainés
Oct 14, 2012 21:27
11 yrs ago
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French term

jours de repos forfaitaires

French to English Bus/Financial Human Resources Employment Law
This document deals with the rules of employment in France at a company that must give days off in compensation for overtime hours worked or days worked on mandatory days off. There are various contexts below and I'd like a translation into US English.

Context 1:

4.2.4 - Jours de repos forfaitaires

Les jours de RTT peuvent être accolés aux congés payés, aux jours fériés, aux jours de repos forfaitaires, aux jours compensatoires, jours de week-end et autres types de congés.

Context 2:

Modalités des prises de jours de RTT

Les jours de RTT peuvent être accolés aux congés payés, aux jours fériés, aux jours de repos forfaitaires, aux jours compensatoires, jours de week-end et autres types de congés.


Context 3:

Bénéficieront de deux (2) jours de repos forfaitaire par an en raison du nombre moins élevé de déplacements effectués : les cadres autonomes se déplaçant majoritairement à l’étranger.

Les jours de repos forfaitaires peuvent être accolés aux congés payés, aux jours fériés, aux RTTs, aux jours compensatoires, jours de week end et autres types de congés.

Context 4:

Bénéficieront de six (6) jours de repos forfaitaires par période de référence en raison du nombre élevé de déplacements effectués : les cadres autonomes se déplaçant 2 jours par semaine en moyenne sur le territoire national + 1 à 2 voyages internationaux par an.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +2 fixed number of days off
3 +1 contractual days off
3 +1 compensatory days off
4 Contractual days off
4 time off entitlements
4 Paid time off
3 set number of days off
4 -1 paid leave
3 -1 days off in lieu
3 -1 flat rate days off

Discussion

Jocelyne Cuenin Oct 18, 2012:
That's right, these are among the people who have signed an agreement "forfait jour" ... I think.
B D Finch Oct 18, 2012:
@Petitavoine These are clearly days off given in addition to the normal annual leave in recognition of extra travel or time worked. As I understand it, rather than the number of extra days being precisely calculated for each person concerned according to what extra travel etc. they undertook, there is a fixed number of days awarded according to a generalised schedule. It is "réservé aux cadres" simply because these are the people expected to be flexible in their travel and working hours in order to fulfil the demands of their jobs.
Jocelyne Cuenin Oct 17, 2012:
forfaitaire ici veut dire en gros que c'est réservé aux cadres, naturellement en plus du sens connu de "flat"
cc in nyc Oct 15, 2012:
@ Petitavoine After reading Article 3, where RTT days are described as "jours de repos" (though not exclusively so), I think the "jours de repos" is used in the UES SFR document (lacfdtsfr.fr) as a general term – something like "days off." But that still leaves us with "forfaitaire"... ;-)
Jocelyne Cuenin Oct 15, 2012:
You'll find a summary under Art. 8 doc cfdt I cited.
There you'll find all the days off an employee (mostly cadres) under forfait jours are entitled to. On top of it, some of them at the top are entitled to JRF (art. 19, 20 later on in the doc.)
B D Finch Oct 15, 2012:
@Howard "Day of rest" sounds very religious, which makes me think the writer of your reference was francophone. I had considered "rest days", but a quick Google check revealed that this is, nowadays, mainly used in the context of sports training and competitions, rather than employment. It was certainly used in an employment context in the past.
cc in nyc Oct 15, 2012:
@ Howard And yet there is "jours de week-end" two ticks after "jours de repos forfaitaires" in Contexts 1 & 2... (though the Canadian site you cite simply uses "day of rest" for "jour de repos" and doesn't involve "forfaitaire" at all)
Howard Sugar Oct 15, 2012:
The Quebec govermental site(http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pubs_pol/hrpubs/tbm_11a/2-fra.asp) defines "jour de repos (day of rest)
désigne
a) pour un employé à temps plein un jour, à l'exception d'un jour férié, pendant lequel l'employé n'est pas ordinairement tenu d'accomplir les fonctions de son poste pour d'autres raisons que du fait qu'il est en congé;
b) pour un employé à temps partiel un jour pendant lequel un employé n'est pas ordinairement tenu d'accomplir les fonctions de son poste pour d'autres raisons que du fait qu'il est en congé. Deux (2) jours de repos par semaine sont désignés jour de repos à l'égard des employés à temps partiel. Ceci n'inclut pas les journées de travail non prévues à l'horaire; journée de travail non prévue à l'horaire (non-scheduled working day)
désigne une journée de travail imprévue ou qui ne fait pas partie de l'horaire régulier de l'employé;
journées de rémunération (compensation days)
désigne les journées que compte une période de paye à l'exception des jours habituels de repos;
cc in nyc Oct 15, 2012:
@ Donovan The more I think about it, the more I am irked by your term being used both in the heading of 4.2.4 and as an element in the list that follows that heading. :-(
Howard Sugar Oct 15, 2012:
You might try "compensatory leave" as the expression. It would seem to fit your reuirements. Ref.http://www.dhrm.virginia.gov/hrpolicy/web/pol3_10.html.
Jocelyne Cuenin Oct 15, 2012:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/other/4956596-jo... .
Pour une certaine catégorie de cadres = cadres de direction parmi tous ceux qui ont signé la convention forfait jour (=cadres + salariés non-cadre qui disposent d’une réelle autonomie),
en plus de tous les autres congés
et en plus des RTT
http://www.lacfdtsfr.fr/uploads/documents/publique/Accords/A...
Art 7-8 forfaits jours ; art 19-20 cadres dirigeants JRF
Donovan Libring (asker) Oct 15, 2012:
It's definitely not comp time because it is a set amount of days off. Plus, comp time is already used and this is included with various measures for providing different means of comp time and leave for people who work reduced weekly schedules, work weekends or a holiday, work overtime, or have to travel or work on a day when they are regularly scheduled off. Apparently these are set days off that they are entitled to from what I understand. There may not be an equivalent in English.
Howard Sugar Oct 15, 2012:
In English we generally use "compensatory time off" as a opposed to days off.
cc in nyc Oct 15, 2012:
@ Donovan Whatever are "lump sum days off"? :-|
Donovan Libring (asker) Oct 15, 2012:
Hi Guys, this is a tricky one because they talk about compensatory days off in other sections and so this is one that is specific. Could it be something like "lump-sum days off" or something similar? It's definitely a French concept within all the comp day scheme they have to make up for extra hours worked, days worked, or keeping a shorter work week... but there is mention in this text of RTTs, compensatory days off, etc...
cc in nyc Oct 15, 2012:
Context issues There seems to be some contextual spillover regarding "jours de repos forfaitaires" in your text:
• First, in Context 1, it's the title of section 4.2.4, but the text that follows is abut "jours de RTT" – namely how they can be used in conjunction with other days off, including with "jours de repos forfaitaires." Is the title wrong? If not, then why would the text be self-referential?
• Then Contexts 3 and 4 make "jours de repos forfaitaire" sound like travel days.
So... which is it to be?

Proposed translations

+2
14 hrs
Selected

fixed number of days off

"- Le dernier forfait est lié à un horaire mensuel pour le personnel assujetti à un horaire précis. Dans ce cas, la rémunération inclut le paiement des heures supplémentaires. En outre, lorsque le forfait est supérieur à 41 heures, trois jours de repos forfaitaires sont attribués par trimestre."
http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/rap-info/i1457.asp

In the above example, a fixed number of days off is related to the number of hours worked.

"Our company applies fixed number of days off policy. It also indicates which holiday should be observed and when will be the floating days in ..."
susanzheng.wordpress.com/2011/07/21/open-ended-time-off/

www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/.../2011-0003scy.pdf
"Retaining the current simple MDO requirements for outages (i.e., a fixed number of days off in a 7- or 15-day period)"
Peer comment(s):
agree MatthewLaSon : That's how I read it, too. I believe that the translation is that simple. forfaitaire = fixé à l'avance (ni moins, ni plus)
5 hrs
Thanks Matthew
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Yes, they are very specifically a set entitlement. Various collective agreements provide for them for example, when certain contractual conditions are met. Example :http://www4.centre-inffo.fr/v2/cpnfp/NT44428.phtml
10 hrs
Thanks Nikki, and for the link.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+1
29 mins

contractual days off

I wonder if there's a slicker term...
Peer comment(s):
disagree writeaway : where does contractual enter into it? can you provide any backing for this (in this exact context)? what are congés payés in that case? Aren't they contractual as well??
8 hrs
I admit it's a stretch: as a package... decided in advance... as contracted (here) // Congés payés are paid vacation days (AE), and yes they are contractual as well. Please see the first Discussion entry I posted. ;-)
agree Cyril B. : That's the one
8 hrs
Thank you.
agree Victoria Britten : Sorry! I guess I was still scratching my head when you posted this...
8 hrs
Thank you. (That's a long scratch!)
neutral B D Finch : But, this appears as one item in a list of six different types of contractual days off!// True, but what comes after might relate to this particular type only.
13 hrs
It is also (egad!) the title on the paragraph containing that list. :-| // We await news from Donovan. ;-)
Something went wrong...
-1
36 mins

days off in lieu

That's another alternaive, very frequently used in the UK, but I don't know if it's used in the U.S.
Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : I learned something-didn't realise that days off in lieu is actually UK speak/I would have used it not realising it's not US-your comment made me check. Thanks!/fwiw this answer is perfectly correct. just not US speak.
23 mins
Well, it's my speak, anyway, and used in Shell UK when I was there. Of course, the pronunciation is somewhat unfortunate in English
disagree Victoria Britten : Could cause confusion: "in lieu" means "instead/in the place of".
8 hrs
I know what the term means but, like CC in the discussion box, I'm not so sure what the context means
Something went wrong...
-1
41 mins

flat rate days off

"Forfaitaire" definitely is "flat rate". Do you believe this is "slicker" than yours, Cc ?
Peer comment(s):
neutral cc in nyc : Sorry Michael, but I wouldn't use "flat rate" for days off. :-(
3 hrs
disagree B D Finch : Agree with cc's comment, but more so.
13 hrs
Something went wrong...
53 mins

set number of days off

Hello,

I understand "forfaitaires" as "set" (fixé à l'avance).


What could be simpler than giving employees a set number of days off for illness over the course of the year, and making sure that number isn't exceeded?

http://www.governing.com/columns/smart-mgmt/col-sick-leave-c...


I hope this helps.
Peer comment(s):
disagree Victoria Britten : This works in the context of an annual entitlement, but it seems to me that if you use "set days off" in the context given it could give the idea that they are set dates.
8 hrs
I wrote "set *number* of days offs", not "set days off", which would have no meaning. The idea of "forfaitaire", imho, is clear: fixé à l'avance (ni moins, ni plus).
agree B D Finch : I don't understand Victoria's disagree: you have written "set number", which makes it clear that it is not "set dates".
13 hrs
Thank you, B D! I appreciate it. Your proposal is fine, too, imho.
Something went wrong...
+1
59 mins

compensatory days off

US speak. Afaik

ARTICLE VIII
HOLIDAYS
Section 1. Each employee shall be entitled to twelve (12) compensatory days off in each calendar year.
http://www.ctdol.state.ct.us/csblr/decisions-pdf/2011/4562.p...

[PDF]
Chapter 24 POLICE - City of Newton
www.ci.newton.ma.us/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=45...
such days off by any or all members of the force, but in the event of such suspension, compensatory days off shall be given as soon as, in the opinion of the chief ...

Mothers in Medicine: A Hospitalist in Academics
www.mothersinmedicine.com/2011/12/hospitalist-in-academics....
15 Dec 2011 – And although I can take compensatory days off in lieu of working the holiday, which is great and something I put into ....

TRAVAIL legal databases
www.ilo.org/dyn/.../travmain.sectionReport1?...
Contact us ..... perform work on the weekly day of rest as long as they receive either a supplement amounting to 100% of their wages or compensatory days off.
Peer comment(s):
agree Sheila Wilson : Probably the best option
19 mins
agree lydiar
2 hrs
disagree cc in nyc : Surely this is "jours compensatoires" – also in the text. // OK, mais ne faut-il pas faire une distinction entre ""jours compensatoires" et "jours de repos forfaitaire"? // so why conflate the two terms in the translation?
2 hrs
Si l'un des jours fériés légaux tombe sur un dimanche, les salariés ont droit à un jour de congé compensatoire à prendre individuellement dans un délai de 3 mois à partir de la date du jour férié en question./they don't mean the same thing.
disagree Victoria Britten : These are in exchange for working on what is usually a rest day, whereas the examples suggest to me that the "repos forfaitaire" is part of a fixed entitlement.
8 hrs
agree Howard Sugar : See http://www.citehr.com/143567-compensatory-off-policy.html
9 hrs
Something went wrong...
9 hrs

Contractual days off

It's a bit lumpy, but the 3rd and 4th examples show that the days in question are part of a set entitlement (depending on status & attributions), and it seems to me that this would be a way of differentiating clearly from the other sorts of leave.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2012-10-15 07:08:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Bénéficieront de deux (2) jours de repos forfaitaire par an" makes it sound to me like a fixed annual entitlement.
Peer comment(s):
disagree writeaway : where does contractual enter into it?? it's certainly nowhere to be seen in the French. Contractual would mean those stipulated by contract. Plus this answer has already been suggested./so what about congés payés? not contractual?
3 mins
It's first not time-wise but because it has the highest rating... I have already apologised for that slip-up: I was still thinking when that contributor was writing. And I believe those days are ones stipulated contractually.
agree cc in nyc : Actually writeaway is right about the timing; I entered my answer many hours ago (apology accepted) ;-)
16 mins
OK, so I don't get the timing on this thing at all. And have no idea how I managed to miss your initial answer.
neutral B D Finch : As noted to cc, this appears as one item in a list of six different types of contractual days off!
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
-1
9 hrs

paid leave

paid leave is a situation in which the employee is away from the workplace with permission of the employer, but continues to receive salary or wages during that period of time.
Peer comment(s):
neutral B D Finch : Not a translation of the source term, which is more specific.
4 hrs
disagree Mary Holihan : paid leave usually (at least in US) refers to extended periods of paid time off, such as maternity leave, or disability leave.
7 hrs
Something went wrong...
41 mins

time off entitlements

another option

or (legal/contractual) time off entitlements

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 42 mins (2012-10-14 22:10:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or even just

HOLIDAY ENTITLEMENTS

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2012-10-15 12:30:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or mandatory paid time off (PTO)/mandatory paid leave

according to these links there is no mandatory paid leave in the US

http://www.mercer.ie/press-releases/holiday-entitlements-aro...

http://humanresources.about.com/b/2012/06/30/are-paid-holida...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2012-10-15 12:37:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annual_leave
Peer comment(s):
neutral cc in nyc : In the US, holidays = New Years Day, July 4, Thanksgiving, Christmas (as examples)
8 hrs
yes, these are public/bank holidays in UK. I was thinking more about PTO as above or "leave"
Something went wrong...
16 hrs

Paid time off

Because of the different uses, this has to be a general term for paid days when not working. They may be part of the benefits package as a total number of days (to include vacation time, sick days, personal days, number of fixed holidays, etc.) or paid days granted for working on a fixed holiday, or for travel time.
Example sentence:

http://management.about.com/od/conflictres/a/SickLvPTO1104.htm

Peer comment(s):
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : I have this as an option in my note at 15 hrs
1 day 20 hrs
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