Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Russian term or phrase:
вертикаль власти
English translation:
hierarchy of power
Added to glossary by
Eric Candle
Jan 16, 2009 20:28
15 yrs ago
Russian term
вертикаль власти
Russian to English
Social Sciences
Government / Politics
Used in an article about the Russian government.
Proposed translations
(English)
Change log
Jan 23, 2009 18:26: Eric Candle Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+2
1 hr
Selected
hierarchy of power
"Чаще всего вертикаль власти понимается как субординация/иерархия, как однонаправленное воздействие административных структур более высокого уровня на низовые структуры. Ключевые слова здесь – "управление", "подчинение" и "контроль".
http://bd.fom.ru/report/cat/power/pa0011
http://bd.fom.ru/report/cat/power/pa0011
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks a mil! The "power" aspect of it is there, and so is the "vertical" in the concept of "hierarchy." Thanks again!"
+3
2 mins
executive chain of command / power vertical / top-down command structure
.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Aleksey Chervinskiy
1 hr
|
Спасибо, Алексей!
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agree |
Tatiana Durimanova
1 hr
|
Спасибо!
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agree |
Adieu
: totally
1 day 16 hrs
|
Спасибо!
|
36 mins
top to bottom government structure
"Vertical hierarchy".
+1
2 hrs
(over)centralization of power
As defined in Marder's Supplemental R>E Dictionary
Peer comment(s):
agree |
boostrer
: very good definition. it should be used if there is no wordplay on "vertical" in the article.
3 hrs
|
agree |
Catless_Grin
7 hrs
|
disagree |
Olga Klymenko
: Vertical power (the term invented by Putin) is not the same as overcentralization of power. The first term implies the [neutral description of the] form/organization of power, the second is evaluative of the quality/the result of such organization.
1 day 15 hrs
|
11 hrs
vertical chain of command/vertical power
This is a term that applies specifically to the structure and organization of state power in Russia under Putin (so-called "vertical' vlasti"). In Western academic literature it is normally referred to ( depending on context) as "vertical chain of command" or "vertical power". See for instance "Putin's Russia", ed. by Dale.R.Herspring (Rowman and Littlefield 2007), p. 76 : [Putin's] goal appears to be to establish a unitary, centralized state under the guise of "restoring effective vertical power in the country," to use Putin's own description of his intention" or ibid, p.88 "The strategy is to strengthen the vertical power of command from the Moscow-based ministries or agencies to the federal destrict agencies...". The former expression is also used in Archie Brown's reader "Contemporary Russian Politics" (Oxford UP, 2001), p. 89 :" Putin's statement on the subject..."It is simply essential .. to restore an effective vertical chain of command in the country..." These are just some examples (I can say so with certainty because I teach Russian Politics in Canadian university and know this literature).
Example sentence:
to restore an effective vertical chain of command in the country
to strengthen the vertical chain of command
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Rachel Douglas
: You've said the same: "vertical" as adj power, power of command, system of power, chain of command, etc. I expressed my thinking behind this choice, which others evidently have shared. // Please see above in "Note added" under my entry.
3 hrs
|
Dear Rachel, As I wrote in my comment, you are correct in your line of thinking but there is an established term used in the literature. As a student of political science I advocate conceptual precision. If there was no established term then....
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+3
9 mins
political power structure
I've had this discussion a number of times. The temptation is to call it something unique -- like the "power vertical" or my favorite "vertically integrated power," but I think that amounts to editorializing.
I've come to the position that it is nothing more than the [political] power structure. The "Russian national political power structure," if the context is unclear.
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Note added at 1 day19 hrs (2009-01-18 15:30:53 GMT)
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As a note, I'm from the school that considers it better to translate Alah as God. Not doing so creates confusion. People see a difference due to the translation where there may not be one. Chicago has a a political power structure. So does Russia. Both tend to get a little over centralized and are run risks of high-grade corruption creeping in. I don't consider the literal translation of the words to be incorrect translation, but think the effect on the reader of being handed a different term for a familiar object should be considered.
I've come to the position that it is nothing more than the [political] power structure. The "Russian national political power structure," if the context is unclear.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day19 hrs (2009-01-18 15:30:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
As a note, I'm from the school that considers it better to translate Alah as God. Not doing so creates confusion. People see a difference due to the translation where there may not be one. Chicago has a a political power structure. So does Russia. Both tend to get a little over centralized and are run risks of high-grade corruption creeping in. I don't consider the literal translation of the words to be incorrect translation, but think the effect on the reader of being handed a different term for a familiar object should be considered.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Tatiana Lammers
4 mins
|
Thanks!
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agree |
NNG
26 mins
|
Thanks!
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agree |
Mikhail Kropotov
1 hr
|
Thanks!
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neutral |
boostrer
: any power has structure.
6 hrs
|
I don't think it's that much different from power structures elsewhere where we don't make that distinction.
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disagree |
Olga Klymenko
: Agree with Booster. Any state power has structure. In this case, "power vertical" is a more appropriate and widely used (not unique) term
1 day 18 hrs
|
I suppose. As long as you think there's something unique about the referent object. Otherwise it's misleading to use a unique term.
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agree |
katerina turevich
: But Allah shouldn't always become God. Sometimes he should stay as Allah. 'Allah Akbar!' In this case, you can do "vertical chain of command power structure"', if it's not too long and the context calls for clarification.
2 days 14 hrs
|
+5
1 hr
vertical system of power
In this case, I'm against ditching "vertical" from the translation because something like merely "power structure" is not by definition vertically organized, even if it may be so in practice in a given country. But, I also find the use of "vertical" as a noun unacceptable in English for this context. Because "vertically organized" and "horizontally organized" are common concepts, I believe that "vertical" as an adjective can be used in a way that conveys the concept, as long as you watch out that it doesn't produce some slightly goofy-sounding phrase. For example, "vertical system" sounds OK to me, but, say, "vertical institutions" would sound a little bit off. If the context allows you to be more expansive, there are other variations such as "vertically organized executive branch institutions", etc.
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Note added at 1 day19 hrs (2009-01-18 16:27:42 GMT)
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For Olga K. In your response, you again commented that my suggestion is off because "there is an established term used in the literature." My question to you was, what is that "established term" in the English-language literature? Your post includes a range of variations, "depending on context", as you rightly observe:
"effective vertical power in the country" (Herspring, ed.)
"the vertical power of command" (Herspring, ed.)
"vertical chain of command" (Brown)
That is not a established single "term", but an established way of expressing Putin's Russian noun "вертикаль" by means of the English adjective "vertical" + some appropriate noun or noun-phrase which describes the organization and/or its function. And what I had already posted was exactly that same solution to this particular translation problem. Hence, you could add to your list of what is "in the literature":
"vertical system of power" (Douglas)
That's why I suggested that you were actually agreeing with me and providing additional documentation of the fact that others have also found this to be the best way to approach the problem, more than giving a different version.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day19 hrs (2009-01-18 16:27:42 GMT)
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For Olga K. In your response, you again commented that my suggestion is off because "there is an established term used in the literature." My question to you was, what is that "established term" in the English-language literature? Your post includes a range of variations, "depending on context", as you rightly observe:
"effective vertical power in the country" (Herspring, ed.)
"the vertical power of command" (Herspring, ed.)
"vertical chain of command" (Brown)
That is not a established single "term", but an established way of expressing Putin's Russian noun "вертикаль" by means of the English adjective "vertical" + some appropriate noun or noun-phrase which describes the organization and/or its function. And what I had already posted was exactly that same solution to this particular translation problem. Hence, you could add to your list of what is "in the literature":
"vertical system of power" (Douglas)
That's why I suggested that you were actually agreeing with me and providing additional documentation of the fact that others have also found this to be the best way to approach the problem, more than giving a different version.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
glazein
5 mins
|
Thanks.
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|
agree |
Marina Aleyeva
: Seems to me a viable option though I am not a native English speaker of course.
1 hr
|
Thank you.
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neutral |
Olga Klymenko
: the explanation is plausible in principle, but in this case there is an established term that applies to Putin's Russia
10 hrs
|
Yes, that is the established term of which we are discussing the translation. There is not an established translation of it, to my knowledge. Or, do you say there is? What is it?
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agree |
Sergei Tumanov
15 hrs
|
Thanks.
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agree |
Igor Blinov
2 days 21 hrs
|
Thanks.
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agree |
Alex Lilo
643 days
|
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