Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

\"Le bruit ne fait pas de bien, le bien ne fait pas de bruit\"

English translation:

In fame there is no virtue, in virtue there is no fame.

Added to glossary by Susannah Bayley
Sep 24, 2012 15:49
11 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term

Discussion

Daryo Sep 25, 2012:
Although the quote is from a piece of religious writing, it is a universal truth beyond religion, so I would try for a translation not connected to the Bible (which is no so well known anyway, like it or not). On the other hand, the wordplay is worth preserving. It’s just a question of finding the nearest translation for "le bien" and "le bruit", which might be trickier than it seems at first. Also, the original quote was most likely in Greek, translated in Latin then in French - a lot of opportunities for a "slight shift in meaning".
Didier Decle (X) Sep 25, 2012:
Official? As with most famous quotes, over the years, there is sure to be one "officially" accepted translation out there, to anyone arduous enough to find it.
It may also depend on your target audience: scholars, teenagers,...
Colin Rowe Sep 24, 2012:
@AllegroTrans Interesting.
As with so many quotes, attributions appear to vary.
The first sites I looked up attribute this quote to François de Sales.
AllegroTrans Sep 24, 2012:
Asker There are several sites listing quotes by St. Vincent de Paul. You need to go through them to find this one. Without doubt there is an "official" version of this saying out there.
AllegroTrans Sep 24, 2012:
The quote is from St. Vincent de Paul

Proposed translations

+1
3 hrs
Selected

In fame there is no virtue, in virtue there is no fame.

It's not entirely faithful to the FR - bruit and fame are not quite the same thing - but it does keep its structure and is fairly pithy, which is the point, I think :-)

Also thought of "Virtue is anonymous", but that's obviously less idiomatic than the FR.
Peer comment(s):

agree Daryo : what about "fame doesn't seek virtue, virtue doesn't seek fame"?
2 days 14 hrs
Thanks Daryo; yes, that could also work well.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "WOW! thanks everyone, so many amazing suggestions. In the end, this one seemed to sum up what my speaker was meaning in the neatest and most appropriate way."
10 mins

clanging gongs does little good, (while) doing good makes little noise

.. an idea
Peer comment(s):

neutral AllegroTrans : any evidence that this is the correct rendition of the original saying? (which is attrbuted to St. Vincent de Paul)
8 mins
Yes. If SVdP was using the metaphor of the Gospel (1Corinthians 13), as one might imagine, the metaphor of "clanging gongs" is used.
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+1
16 mins

when you give to the needy, sound not a trumpet before you

This is from Matthew 6:2. As my reference shows, it's been translated it many different ways , but I like this version.

You haven't given any context, but you might want to precede it with something like "as the Bible says".
Peer comment(s):

agree Conor McAuley : Nice research, I would certainly prefer to go for an "official" version
17 hrs
neutral Daryo : that's the meaning, but you lost the wordplay
2 days 22 hrs
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+1
25 mins

let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth...

This is certainly the idea that is meant here as conveyed in the Gospel of Matthew (chapter 6, verses 3-4).

"But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: (That thine alms may be in secret)" KJV

A more modern rendering would be:

"But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, (so that your giving may be in secret)." NIV

Essentially, don't do something good with publicity in mind, keep your good deeds secret.

If you were looking for a more literal rendering, something like this might work:

"making noise does no good; doing good makes no noise"

Hope this helps!
Peer comment(s):

agree katsy
37 mins
neutral Daryo : 20 centuries later, "left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing" associates _most_ people with the idea of being disorganised and incompetent, not of being self-effacing.// how many are familiar with quotes from the Bible? A high proportion?
13 hrs
The two expressions are similar, but I would hope that "_most_" native English readers would be familiar with both and able to distinguish between them.//Most are familiar with more biblical quotes than they realise! But, pearls before swine...
neutral philgoddard : I agree with Daryo - strictly speaking this is correct, but its accepted meaning has changed.
23 hrs
I beg to differ. Both expressions/meanings co-exist quite happily.
neutral cc in nyc : ditto with Daryo and philgoddard
4 days
Ditto my comments above
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27 mins

Good deeds are done discreetly, without pomp and circumstance

Hello,

I might say it like this.

Our good deeds are to be done discreetly. Jesus said: "But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, that your ...

http://www.oldpaths.com/archive/davison/roy/allen/1940/give....


I hope this helps.

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Note added at 27 mins (2012-09-24 16:17:54 GMT)
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You can be literal here, if you like.
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+1
43 mins

The worth of a thing/charity is what it can do, not the commotion it brews"

Was just playing around with words.
I have adapted this from the idiom:

"The worth of a thing is what it will bring"
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/worth of a thing is what...
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sHKtkN-...



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Note added at 44 mins (2012-09-24 16:34:26 GMT)
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OR "..., not its hullabaloo"

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Note added at 44 mins (2012-09-24 16:34:45 GMT)
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But that might not fit context.
Peer comment(s):

agree Conor McAuley : You're welcome
17 hrs
Thank you.
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2 hrs

A charitable man is like an apple tree--he gives his fruit and is silent

Suggestions
Do good by stealth, and blush to find it fame. ~Alexander Pope, Epilogue to the Satires, 1738

A charitable man is like an apple tree--he gives his fruit and is silent; the philanthropist is like the successful hen.

AUSTIN O'MALLEY
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3 hrs

actions speak louder than words

actions speak louder than words
Peer comment(s):

agree Yolanda Broad
5 hrs
thanks
agree EJP
13 hrs
thanks
disagree philgoddard : This is not the same thing. It means what you do is more important than what you say.
20 hrs
I have just given my opinion and how I understand it. Thanks all the same for your comment.
disagree cc in nyc : agree with philgoddard; the connection to philanthropy without pomp has been lost.
1 day 20 hrs
neutral Daryo : it's close, but not that
2 days 14 hrs
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8 hrs

The highest form of charity is anonymous

One more entry ;-)
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-1
1 day 17 hrs

Silence is a blessing, and blessing is silent.

Je prends le contrepied de la première partie de l'énoncé pour créer un chiasme et conserver ainsi la répéition d'origine.

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Note added at 2 jours34 minutes (2012-09-26 16:24:43 GMT)
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Le mot répété a une connotation religieuse, qui est bien dans l'esprit de St Vincent de Paul.
Peer comment(s):

disagree cc in nyc : "Silence is a blessing' is a completely different idea; the idea of charity or philanthropy has been lost.
2 days 21 hrs
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2 days 18 hrs

"fame-seekers are not good-doers; good-doers are not fame-seekers"

one possible workaround - replace abstract concepts by persons
Peer comment(s):

neutral Colin Rowe : "good-doers" does not sound English. It does, however, sound like "do-gooders", i.e. people whose "help" is often considered pushy and unwanted.
2 days 2 hrs
see "http://www.alphadictionary.com/blog/?p=311" it IS English (about 150.000 hits); "Do-Gooders and Good-Doers" are seen in a positive light by the potential "target audience" for this ST; someone's pushy religious loony is someone else's genuine saint.
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3 days 6 hrs

"What is good makes no noise, noise does no good."

quote from St Francis de Sales
http://liturgialatina.blogspot.de/2011/01/29th-january-st-fr...

But there is another version on the web. L.-C. de Saint-Martin's quote is as follows:
“I have desired to do good, but I have not desired to make noise, because I have felt that noise did no good and that good made no noise.”
Louis Claude de Saint-Martin (dit Le philosophe inconnu)

"The Martinism of Louis-Claude de Saint-Martin which is a Mystical tradition in which emphasis is placed on Meditation and inner spiritual alchemy. Saint-Martin disapproved of these teachings being called 'martinism' by his contemporaries, and instead explained it as a silent 'way of the heart' to attain reintegration.

Saint-Martin most likely did not organize this path as an 'order', but gathered small circles of students around him, where he transmitted his teachings. This heritage was reorganized into the 'Ordre Martiniste' in 1886 by Augustin Chaboseau and Gerard Encausse (aka Papus).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martinism

http://www.rosicrucian.org/about/tmo/Light_of_Martinism_web_...

Résumé:
"De même qu'il existe une technique de l'Alchimie matérielle, il existe une technique de l'Alchimie spirituelle.
Cette existence très réelle d'un procédé pour parvenir à l'Illumination traditionnelle, tous les vieux maîtres de jadis l'ont enseignée.
Ce chemin intérieur, menant peu à peu l'Adepte vers l'Illuminisme, fut enseigné à de rares intimes par Louis-Claude de Saint-Martin, le Philosophe Inconnu. C'est une véritable technique, et non une banale sensibilité; c'est une mystique savante, et non une mystique extatique. Elle nous vient des Rose+Croix d'autrefois.

"J'ai souhaité de faire le bien, mais je n'ai pas souhaité de faire de bruit, car le bruit ne fait pas de bien et le bien ne fait pas de bruit" Louis-Claude de Saint-Martin
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Reference comments

18 hrs
Reference:

Info

Some sources attribute the quote to St Francis de Sales, his Introduction to the Devout Life.
A well-though-out search in the search box at the top of the page here http://www.ccel.org/ and you may find the "official" translation. I've tried a few things but no joy.
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