| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | So this is it? If I refuse to use Trados, I cannot translate XML files? Thread poster: Dinny
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Heinrich Pesch 
Finland
Local time: 02:33
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
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| The problem is elsewhere | Mar 12, 2009 |
There is a lot of software that can handle xml, some cheaper, some more expensive than Trados. But if the rest of the team uses Trados you will have a hard time without. Partly because of segmentation, partly because of tm-exchange.
Trados is not difficult to use. Just install and open WB, select the tm, than open TE and the files to translate. All Windows applications work in the same way. When you are not sure you can ask someone here or from your team.
Regards
Heinrich
| | | | Dinny
Greece
Local time: 02:33
Italian to Danish
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TOPIC STARTER
Thank you all for your valuable input - I will have plenty of stuff to go through and test for the next few days and, hopefully, I shall find a solution.
And when/if I find a solution that works, I will let you know.
Dinny
| | | | | I've seen... | Mar 12, 2009 |
... portable Trados that does not need to be installed. It runs from a memory stick. Surf the Net.
| | | | Dinny
Greece
Local time: 02:33
Italian to Danish
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TOPIC STARTER | The solution is Notepad | Mar 12, 2009 |
I received a very kind mail from my ProZ colleague Lori, who had taken the time to test the translation of an XML file with Wordfast. And the final step to turn this translated file in Word into an XML file consisted only of copying the text from Word and pasting it in Notepad++ where it was then possible to save the file in XML format.
Fantastic!
Thanks, Lori, and thanks to all of you for your help and ... See more I received a very kind mail from my ProZ colleague Lori, who had taken the time to test the translation of an XML file with Wordfast. And the final step to turn this translated file in Word into an XML file consisted only of copying the text from Word and pasting it in Notepad++ where it was then possible to save the file in XML format.
Fantastic!
Thanks, Lori, and thanks to all of you for your help and advice.
Dinny ▲ Collapse
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 01:33
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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| No CAT tool can translate XML files directly | Mar 12, 2009 |
Dinny wrote:
I want to be part of a project to translate XML files.
Well, the problem with XML is figuring out which parts of it need to be translated. Then you need to tell the CAT tool "translate this but ignore that". That's basically the issue with XML.
If the PM wants you to use Trados, then it probably means that they have already figured out how to tell Trados which parts of the XML file should and shouldn't be changed. I'm sure you can use any CAT tool to translate those XML files, but how will you guarantee the PM that you won't change parts of it that shouldn't be changed? You can't. All you can do is use your common sense and hope that whoever wrote the format specification had the same common sense as you have.
Question 2: Does any of you have experience with any other CAT tool that can deal with XML files - and maybe even be compatible with TMs in various formats?
Swordfish has a generic XML filter but you still need to tweak things a bit... but that is basically what you would have to do in Trados as well, if the client doesn't provide his own custom-designed XML filter for you.
Question 3: Does any of you know whether CatsCradle is able to handle XML files?
I think the most helpful (though not the most correct) answer would be: no.
| | | | Dinny
Greece
Local time: 02:33
Italian to Danish
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TOPIC STARTER | Errata corrige... | Mar 12, 2009 |
Notepad was not the solution after all.
It sure LOOKED as if I had produced at translated XML file, but when trying to open this XML file in a browser it was not possible.
Back to the drawing table!
Dinny
| | | | Vito Smolej
Germany
Local time: 01:33
Member (2004)
English to Slovenian
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SITE LOCALIZER | I could use OmegaT as is ... | Mar 12, 2009 |
... on XML files which were actually XLIFF files (ProZ.com very own localization material). But then ... they were XLIFF format (i.e. their internal structure, aka DTD, was known to OmegaT). But I guess I am repeating what e.g. Samuel has already said.
So...
Back to the drawing table!
| | | | | Not working? | Mar 14, 2009 |
Dinny wrote: Notepad was not the solution after all. It sure LOOKED as if I had produced at translated XML file, but when trying to open this XML file in a browser it was not possible. Back to the drawing table! Dinny
Dinny, can you elaborate on why it didn't work? Lori was right, the XML format was created to store raw data in pure text format - there is no formatting and anything like that. You can create XML files in ANY text editor. So notepad is obviously the most popular choice. There are even no rules when it comes to the tags - you can create any tag you want.
I'm a web developer and I use notepad all the time to create XML files and they sure do work with the applications that call for them. What is happening when you try to open it in a browser? It should display the text in the same way it would if you opened a .txt file.
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Dinny
Greece
Local time: 02:33
Italian to Danish
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TOPIC STARTER | "funny" stuff was added to the file | Mar 14, 2009 |
This might have happened during the translation in Wordfast or when copying it to Notepad++
A colleague of mine checked the file for me and told me about these "extras" which should not have been there. My problem is that I don't really know much about tags so I would not be able to spot it even if I tried.
I'm sure she won't mind if I quote her message to me:
"What I did:
1. Saved your file in UTF-8 in TextPad (File->Save As - Encoding: UTF-8). It s... See more This might have happened during the translation in Wordfast or when copying it to Notepad++
A colleague of mine checked the file for me and told me about these "extras" which should not have been there. My problem is that I don't really know much about tags so I would not be able to spot it even if I tried.
I'm sure she won't mind if I quote her message to me:
"What I did:
1. Saved your file in UTF-8 in TextPad (File->Save As - Encoding: UTF-8). It seems that your file was in ANSI - it is *very* important to save in UTF-8 because otherwise XML won't accept special characters like äöå." (MY NOTE: I did save it as UTF-8... so beats me how it came out as ANSI!!!")
"2. There was strange "garbage" in the beginning of your file that was visible at least in TextPad: "" - I manually deleted these (if they were there the file wouldn't work even in UTF-8 as is breaks XML syntax). I'm not sure how they get there but I assume it is because of your text editor (maybe you used Notepad - not Notepad++ - at first?)."
Her advise was to try Textpad instead of Notepad - and I am going to check tomorrow whether that works or not.
Will let you know what comes out of it!
Dinny ▲ Collapse
| | | | Vito Smolej
Germany
Local time: 01:33
Member (2004)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | strange "garbage" | Mar 14, 2009 |
Dinny wrote:
"2. There was strange "garbage" in the beginning of your file that was visible at least in TextPad: ""
That's the sign-on header for UTF-8 files (when read as ANSI or something similarly wild). This is indeed a comedy of formats (g).
Bty the way, if anything use notepad2:
http://www.flos-freeware.ch/notepad2.html
- I use Flo's (i.e. author's) URL, all the rest (310.000 hits on google) are copycats
| | | | David Seycek
Austria
Local time: 01:33
Member (2006)
English to German
+ ...
| Done this before… | Mar 17, 2009 |
…and it worked.
Dinny,
What you need to do is paste the content of the XML file into an empty Word doc, separate the markup from translatable content, translate with Wordfast, and paste back. Use Notepad++ (freeware) to open your XML files. Don’t use Notepad.
The tricky part is to separate the markup (i.e. <some_tag>Text</some_tag> ) from translatable content and format it (the markup tags, that is) as tw4winExternal, if outside sentences,... See more …and it worked.
Dinny,
What you need to do is paste the content of the XML file into an empty Word doc, separate the markup from translatable content, translate with Wordfast, and paste back. Use Notepad++ (freeware) to open your XML files. Don’t use Notepad.
The tricky part is to separate the markup (i.e. <some_tag>Text</some_tag> ) from translatable content and format it (the markup tags, that is) as tw4winExternal, if outside sentences, and as tw4winInternal, when inside sentences. To do that manually, you should be good with wildcard searches in MS Word and build a macro that does the trick for you. Or you could use TortoiseTagger. I wrote an article on CAT tools some time ago, and part of it deals with exactly the same issue. It’s available from my website, if you want to read it: http://www.ds-translations.at/htm/en_articles_cat_tools.htm
If you’re still at a loss, contact me through my profile or website – I’m pretty sure I can help.
[Edited at 2009-03-17 16:35 GMT]
[Edited at 2009-03-17 16:39 GMT]
[Edited at 2009-03-17 16:40 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | The strange garbage is part of the UTF-8 format!!!!! | Mar 17, 2009 |
"What I did:
1. Saved your file in UTF-8 in TextPad (File->Save As - Encoding: UTF-8). It seems that your file was in ANSI - it is *very* important to save in UTF-8 because otherwise XML won't accept special characters like äöå." (MY NOTE: I did save it as UTF-8... so beats me how it came out as ANSI!!!")
"2. There was strange "garbage" in the beginning of your file that was visible at least in TextPad: "" - I manually deleted these (if they were there the file wouldn't work even in UTF-8 as is breaks XML syntax). I'm not sure how they get there but I assume it is because of your text editor (maybe you used Notepad - not Notepad++ - at first?)."
Is your friend very familiar with the UTF-8 format?
The "garbage" is not garbage, it is called "Byte order marker" (BOM for short).
It is part of the UTF-8 definition!!!!
More information here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte_Order_Mark
An XML file in UTF-8 with the BOM is a valid XML file.
An XML file without the BOM is also a valid XML file.
There are two possible problems with the BOM:
a) Some applications do not recognise it properly and require XML files in UTF-8 format without a BOM.
b) Notepad (and other tools) always insert the BOM when you save as UTF-8, and this causes problems for applications which do not recognise it.
Solution:
1) Ask your customers if their XML files should have a BOM or not.
2) Use an application which allows you to save the files in UTF-8 format without a BOM.
Have you read the link to the Wordfast knowledge base that I posted before? I would think that this is explained there but I am not sure...
Daniel
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Dinny
Greece
Local time: 02:33
Italian to Danish
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TOPIC STARTER | Wow, you guys are something! | Mar 17, 2009 |
Isn't just incredible how much help and knowledge you can get here by just asking? I thank you all!
I have loads of stuff to try out now, it's just that the strange phenomenon of "work" has taken over at the moment - I really hope to find a quiet moment during the weekend to try out whether all of these suggestions actually works. Well, I have already heard that they work - I just want to make sure that even my brain ... See more Isn't just incredible how much help and knowledge you can get here by just asking? I thank you all!
I have loads of stuff to try out now, it's just that the strange phenomenon of "work" has taken over at the moment - I really hope to find a quiet moment during the weekend to try out whether all of these suggestions actually works. Well, I have already heard that they work - I just want to make sure that even my brain is able to cope with it!
And, hopefully, when I get back to confirm, maybe somebody else will find all this exchange of knowledge very useful and time-saving! I'm surely not the first person going crazy over how to solve this problem!
Thanks again!
Dinny ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dinny
Greece
Local time: 02:33
Italian to Danish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I did read your link to the Wordfast knowledge base... I'm just running out of time to experience it all in the moment. But I'll get there SOOOOON!
Dinny
| | | | Dinny
Greece
Local time: 02:33
Italian to Danish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | The problems are created by the Danish letters æ, ø, and å? | Mar 23, 2009 |
I rechecked the XML file I had created (and which wouldn't open) in Notepad++
The Danish letters æ, ø, and å was shown as "E5", "E6", and "E7". When trying to open the XML file in a browser I got the error message that there were some wrong characters in the text.
So I tried to cancel these E5, E6, and E7. Saved the file again (UTF-8, XML format) and suddenly everything worked fine! I could open the new XML file in the browser.
But that doesn't solve m... See more I rechecked the XML file I had created (and which wouldn't open) in Notepad++
The Danish letters æ, ø, and å was shown as "E5", "E6", and "E7". When trying to open the XML file in a browser I got the error message that there were some wrong characters in the text.
So I tried to cancel these E5, E6, and E7. Saved the file again (UTF-8, XML format) and suddenly everything worked fine! I could open the new XML file in the browser.
But that doesn't solve my problem, since I actually need to use these Danish letters. As far as I have understood the whole idea of saving the text in UTF-8 is that this is the only way to get these special characters accepted?
I'm a translator, not a computer expert! Sigh!
Any suggestions?
TIA
P.S. I can actually correct the file in Notepad++ (inserting the Danish letters) and the save again as XML. The file opens fine in a browser. It takes a little extra time to make the corrections afterwards in Notepad++, but it can be done.
[Edited at 2009-03-24 08:33 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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