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English translation: documentation, materials, documents, data, literature

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Japanese term or phrase:shiryo
English translation:documentation, materials, documents, data, literature
Entered by: Yelena Pestereva

23:08 Apr 3, 2006
Japanese to English translations [PRO]
Bus/Financial - Management
Japanese term or phrase: shiryo
I am currently translating into Russian the following saying of Toyota's M-r Ohno: You may think that you are creating source materials (shiryo) for the company. But often they are turned into a meaningless pile of paper (shiryo) or dead weight (shiryo). The true shiryo can have only one meaning, and it must be source materials.
Am I right that the word shiryo has 3 meanings? Are they exactly the meanings mentioned in the prase? Why only one of the meanings can be named true?
Yelena Pestereva
Israel
documentation, materials, documents, data, literature
Explanation:
It's a play on words - 資料 is "source materials," 紙料 is "pulp," and 死[重]量 is "dead weight." They are all pronounced "shiryo." The Japanese often use this type of pun in business writing to emphasize a point. What is not often done, however, is translating this kind of thing in English (as has apparently been done in the document you are translating into Russian) because, obviously, it makes no sense to someone who doesn't speak Japanese. On the other hand, if this quote has been attributed to someone, then I suppose someone thought the saying was worth translating as is. You can judge the wisdom of that decision on your own.

Incidentally, the translation of "shiryo" as "source materials" is not very good. I've tried to indicate the lexical scope of the word to help you choose the right Russian word. Incidentally, "shiryo" is transliterated сирё, and not ширё.

(Jim Breen's dictionary gives материал; данные for shiryo.)

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Note added at 1 hr (2006-04-04 00:28:05 GMT)
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http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi (choose j-russian)
Selected response from:

Marc Adler
Local time: 07:05
Grading comment
Thank for explaining how it sounds in Russian
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +5all of the above
amanojbc1
4 +2documentation, materials, documents, data, literature
Marc Adler
3documentation
KathyT
3you are probably right
Ala Rabie


  

Answers


8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
shiryo （資料）
documentation


Explanation:
Ｓｈｉｒｙｏｕ is generally "documentation."
This would pretty much cover the various nuances contained in your text.

Good luck!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 mins (2006-04-03 23:20:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Below are some of the variant translations of "shiryo" from http://trans.glova.jp

資料 data | document | handout | information | literature | material | source material
資料 material | Material | Publication | data | datum | document | file | handout | information | literature | source | source material | written material
資料 written material
資料 data | datum | document | material | materials | sample | resource | documentary literature
資料 source material
資料 data | document | information | literature | material | materials | source material | written material | resource | documentary literature



KathyT
Australia
Local time: 22:05
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 8
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you for quick and useful reply.

Asker: Thank you for quick and even more useful reply. It will be difficult for me to select the best answer.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Maynard Hogg: That's only one-third of the answer.
47 mins
  -> Yes. That went straight over my head!! (blush!)
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49 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +5
all of the above


Explanation:
This is a play on words--source materials 資料(shiryo) for the company. But often they are turned into a meaningless pile of paper 紙量(shiryo) or dead weight 死量(shiryo).

amanojbc1
Specializes in field

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Maynard Hogg: Assuming a long vowel: shiryō. Personally, I would use 飼料.
7 mins
agree  michiko tsum (X): トヨタ生産方式の生みの親と言われる大野耐一氏は、「資料をつくったつもりが、飼料 にならず紙量や死量をつくることが多い」と言っていた。 http://plaza.rakuten.co.jp/prosyokuyamaji/diary/2005081500
3 hrs
agree  KathyT: After seeing Tsumura-san's quote (above), I would go with this as the correct answer.
4 hrs
agree  Minoru Kuwahara: yes, yes, many, many "shiryou"s, probably meaningless other than in Japanese.; i would add any things like 紙量 or 死量 do not exist, but the speaker is talking cynically. -
4 hrs
agree  Eva Blanar
1 day 7 hrs
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50 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
you are probably right


Explanation:
As for why only one of them is true, it would be that the company only needs materiae, while the other meanings are a waste of the materiae itself (pile of papers, dead weight?)

Ala Rabie
Egypt
Local time: 15:05
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Maynard Hogg: An answer without 漢字 is meaningless in this CONTEXT.
7 mins
  -> 問い掛けはすでに回答されました。残っているのはただ説明の仕事にすぎません。
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50 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
documentation, materials, documents, data, literature


Explanation:
It's a play on words - 資料 is "source materials," 紙料 is "pulp," and 死[重]量 is "dead weight." They are all pronounced "shiryo." The Japanese often use this type of pun in business writing to emphasize a point. What is not often done, however, is translating this kind of thing in English (as has apparently been done in the document you are translating into Russian) because, obviously, it makes no sense to someone who doesn't speak Japanese. On the other hand, if this quote has been attributed to someone, then I suppose someone thought the saying was worth translating as is. You can judge the wisdom of that decision on your own.

Incidentally, the translation of "shiryo" as "source materials" is not very good. I've tried to indicate the lexical scope of the word to help you choose the right Russian word. Incidentally, "shiryo" is transliterated сирё, and not ширё.

(Jim Breen's dictionary gives материал; данные for shiryo.)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2006-04-04 00:28:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi (choose j-russian)


    Reference: http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1E
Marc Adler
Local time: 07:05
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thank for explaining how it sounds in Russian
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you for quick and even more useful reply. It will be difficult for me to select the best answer.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Maynard Hogg: Too bad about the JWB reference and the faulty URL.
7 mins
  -> Thanks for that. I fixed it.
agree  conejo: I agree with the explanation of the Japanese, although it is unclear without seeing the original Japanese whether the second "shiryo" is 紙量(a lot of paper) or 紙料(pulp). I can't say anything about the Russian translations as I don't speak Russian.
3 hrs
  -> I've never seen 紙量 on its own (only 排紙量, etc.), and assume it's not too common, but you're right - without the original, we can't know.
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