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translators-scammers.com – when scammers pretend they are chasing scammers
Thread poster: Tatiana Fröhlich
Corbett AM
Corbett AM  Identity Verified
Ireland
Local time: 12:28
French to English
+ ...
TS reacted to me strangely enough Apr 8, 2019

OK, I just got un-followed by Translator Scammers on twitter and as I was also following them, that has been voided as well (does that mean I'm blocked by them?). They followed me first by the way which I was surprised by but followed them back.

It appears I offended them or their way of working, despite not meaning to. I'm not bothered about the Twitter unfollow as such, as I have better things to worry about, just the fact it was my comment they took offence to.

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OK, I just got un-followed by Translator Scammers on twitter and as I was also following them, that has been voided as well (does that mean I'm blocked by them?). They followed me first by the way which I was surprised by but followed them back.

It appears I offended them or their way of working, despite not meaning to. I'm not bothered about the Twitter unfollow as such, as I have better things to worry about, just the fact it was my comment they took offence to.

Maybe I should be wary myself now.
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Viesturs Lacis
Viesturs Lacis  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 14:28
English to Latvian
Re: maat ka re Apr 8, 2019

maat ka re wrote:

Something like: There’s a grain of truth in every rumor, right?

(double facepalm)

I have no idea what you're implying so I guess this line of conversation has been exhausted?


 
Tatiana Fröhlich
Tatiana Fröhlich
Germany
Local time: 13:28
Member (2013)
Slovak to Czech
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TOPIC STARTER
Re: VIesturs Lacis Apr 8, 2019

Viesturs Lacis wrote:

Kaspars Melkis wrote:
they look like scammers to me

Where is the scam though? Scammers usually ply their trade to get some material benefit out of it. What benefit does keeping a huge public list of e-mail addresses and allegedly fake documents provide? Has anyone reported e.g. being asked for money in return for adding or deleting entries to their database? They don't seem to be running any paid advertisements either (many a shady website finances itself this way).
Scam is in not respecting the law (by disclosing personal details without the consent, by suggesting the users to fill the listed e-mails with malware and spam), in not being responsible in their actions.

And in case it is a mistake and they are just overzealous vigilantes, how would you even prove to them that you are who you claim to be? Send a copy of your ID to an anonymous entity?

In another comment, I have suggested third party verification as a safe method of establishing one's credentials. I have no idea if they would consider it acceptable but this is what I would attempt in such a situation.

I tried to contact them on several platforms, no reply. And truly, WHY SHOULD I talk to some anonymous person and prove anything? I didn´t do anything wrong. Since my CV is only available to the companies who are searching for translators, I believe that this is some form of punishment for not accepting some outrageous rates of 0,02 EUR/per new word or similar.
And yes, you are right, I can collect the references from my clients, however, do you have any idea how humiliating it is to explain your personal problems (since this is a personal problem) to a busy project manager?

„Since T-S, in their own words, do not act on mere allegations, I conclude that whoever is responsible for your e-mail being placed in that database has been able to build a prima facie case of insincerity which you now must refute.“
And I wrote:
„there’s a grain of truth in every rumor, right?“



[Edited at 2019-04-08 15:28 GMT]


 
Tatiana Fröhlich
Tatiana Fröhlich
Germany
Local time: 13:28
Member (2013)
Slovak to Czech
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Re: Katarzyna Slowikova Apr 8, 2019

My CV is not downloadable anywhere.
My identity and e-mail were not stolen.
They did not try to verify, whether I am in fact a scammer.
And they do not respect the European or US law.
Some anonymous self-appointed police officers, judges and executioners in one are allowed to damage your reputation and you cannot do anything about it.
I am absolutely convinced about their good intentions. The road to hell is paved with them.


 
Katarzyna Slowikova
Katarzyna Slowikova  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:28
English to Czech
+ ...
TSD is trustworthy but everybody makes mistakes Apr 8, 2019

Kaspars Melkis wrote:http://www.translator-scammers.com/translator-scammers-faq.htm

Maybe they just have a honeypot address with invitations to translators to send their CVs. And then they decide by their own methods which CVs are fake. Which obviously is a flawed process and with no way to rectify the mistakes, the supposed value can be negative.


Do yourself a favour and read at least this:
http://www.translator-scammers.com/translator-scammers-faq.htm

TSD does an incredibly valuable work so please everybody, before you start speculating here on all kinds of hidden ulterior motifs that just pop up randomly in your head, do your homework and inform yourself what the TSD actually is and how it works.

As CorbettAM said, it should be possible for the TSD to check the documentation they have been sent as a proof of Maat being a scammer. Either it's fake or they made some kind of a mistake... like confusing a victim with a scammer...? Are you sure, Maat, you couldn't have been a victim of ID theft? Did you have a downloadable CV somewhere? And how long have you been waiting for their answer so far?


Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Ettore Peyrot
 
Kaspars Melkis
Kaspars Melkis  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:28
English to Latvian
+ ...
. Apr 8, 2019

Viesturs Lacis wrote:
Where is the scam though? Scammers usually ply their trade to get some material benefit out of it. What benefit does keeping a huge public list of e-mail addresses and allegedly fake documents provide? Has anyone reported e.g. being asked for money in return for adding or deleting entries to their database? They don't seem to be running any paid advertisements either (many a shady website finances itself this way).


Well, I have never heard of them before. My first impression was that they will be demanding payment for "correcting" the wrong info.

I could ask the question in reverse? What do they get by doing this voluntary work? Maybe it is some global translation agency that sponsors them and pay their bills. It may be alright but we need to know this in case there are conflicting interests. For example, their aim may be not so much to protect freelancers but rather to protect low-cost agencies. Some false positives, meaning falsely acused freelancers, may not be a big deal to them, especially if the given freelancer is above their pay range. In fact, it would help them to keep rates low since maat ka re is now having difficulties to find new clients and out of necessity might agree to their conditions.

In another comment, I have suggested third party verification as a safe method of establishing one's credentials. I have no idea if they would consider it acceptable but this is what I would attempt in such a situation.


This clearly shows that the GDPR was needed for our protection. Unfortunately they are hiding behind non-EU registration thus evading the EU privacy laws. Maybe the lawyers can still help because GDPR is applicable to EU citizens globally.


 
Corbett AM
Corbett AM  Identity Verified
Ireland
Local time: 12:28
French to English
+ ...
I don't agree Katarzyna Apr 8, 2019

Katarzyna Slowikova wrote:

Kaspars Melkis wrote:http://www.translator-scammers.com/translator-scammers-faq.htm

Maybe they just have a honeypot address with invitations to translators to send their CVs. And then they decide by their own methods which CVs are fake. Which obviously is a flawed process and with no way to rectify the mistakes, the supposed value can be negative.


Do yourself a favour and read at least this:
http://www.translator-scammers.com/translator-scammers-faq.htm

TSD does an incredibly valuable work so please everybody, before you start speculating here on all kinds of hidden ulterior motifs that just pop up randomly in your head, do your homework and inform yourself what the TSD actually is and how it works.

As CorbettAM said, it should be possible for the TSD to check the documentation they have been sent as a proof of Maat being a scammer. Either it's fake or they made some kind of a mistake... like confusing a victim with a scammer...? Are you sure, Maat, you couldn't have been a victim of ID theft? Did you have a downloadable CV somewhere? And how long have you been waiting for their answer so far?





Katarzyna, I posted a comment there, saying they reacted to me by unfollowing me on Twitter when I said nothing negative about them. I am more and more inclined to agree with Maat now, minus the hell part. This is probably what they did when someone approached them with Maat's details. Not stopping to check or take a breath. So don't use me to force your point.

I have actually told someone at Translation Scammers that they do a very good job there. Well in Maat's case they haven't done a very good job, but otherwise they do. However, I obviously won't be counting on their help in the future should something like that happen to me (touch wood it doesn't).


 
Katarzyna Slowikova
Katarzyna Slowikova  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:28
English to Czech
+ ...
no title Apr 8, 2019

CorbettAM wrote:

Katarzyna, I posted a comment there, saying they reacted to me by unfollowing me on Twitter when I said nothing negative about them.


I was writing my post when you posted it so I read it only afterwards... that's indeed strange reaction.


I am more and more inclined to agree with Maat now, minus the hell part. This is probably what they did when someone approached them with Maat's details. Not stopping to check or take a breath. So don't use me to force your point.

I have actually told someone at Translation Scammers that they do a very good job there. Well in Maat's case they haven't done a very good job, but otherwise they do. However, I obviously won't be counting on their help in the future should something like that happen to me (touch wood it doesn't).



It still seems to me that we have pretty similar opinion the TSD... except of course that I don't have any bad personal experience with them, as you now have...

The point of my post was that it should be possible to find the mistake in the materials THEY have, without Maat having to prove anything. I really hope that's what's going to happen here and no lawyers, police or courts will have to be used.

[Edited at 2019-04-08 16:13 GMT]


 
Corbett AM
Corbett AM  Identity Verified
Ireland
Local time: 12:28
French to English
+ ...
I know what you mean don't worry Apr 8, 2019

Katarzyna Slowikova wrote:

CorbettAM wrote:

Katarzyna, I posted a comment there, saying they reacted to me by unfollowing me on Twitter when I said nothing negative about them.


I was writing my post when you posted it so I read it only afterwards... that's indeed strange reaction.


I am more and more inclined to agree with Maat now, minus the hell part. This is probably what they did when someone approached them with Maat's details. Not stopping to check or take a breath. So don't use me to force your point.

I have actually told someone at Translation Scammers that they do a very good job there. Well in Maat's case they haven't done a very good job, but otherwise they do. However, I obviously won't be counting on their help in the future should something like that happen to me (touch wood it doesn't).



It still seems to me that we have pretty similar opinion the TSD... except of course that I don't have any bad personal experience with them, as you now have...

The point of my post was that it should be possible to find the mistake in the materials THEY have, without Maat having to prove anything. I really hope that's what's going to happen here and no lawyers, police or courts will have to be used.

[Edited at 2019-04-08 16:13 GMT]


Yeah, don't worry I know what you mean but it looked like you had misunderstood the ID thing and I did not realise you had not read my comment. TSD should definitely go through their material and try to find out who reported Maat to them. I hope no lawyers etc get involved either. It could all be very stressful! In any case, I'll be on the alert now myself where they're concerned which is a pity because like I said I thought they had been mostly doing a good job. If they want to over-react, that's on them entirely.


 
Kaspars Melkis
Kaspars Melkis  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:28
English to Latvian
+ ...
. Apr 8, 2019

Katarzyna Slowikova wrote:

Do yourself a favour and read at least this:
http://www.translator-scammers.com/translator-scammers-faq.htm


This link does not leave the impression that they are professionals. Rather they are some guys with god complexes. They do not disclose who they are, how they collect and process the data. This would not be lawful in the EU. Then they justify their anonymity with the example of a famous statistian publishing under pseudonym and the whistleblower which they are not.

They offer no way to rectify any potential mistakes. Item 14 rejects any possibility that they might ever be wrong.

It might be indeed that scamming that is such a big problem in translation market that it requires such drastic measures and they have good intentions. Nevertheless, in Maat's case it may be the revenge of some disgrunted project manager who regularly provides data to them. How would you ever know?


 
Thomas T. Frost
Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 12:28
Danish to English
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Complain to Google and Twitter Apr 8, 2019

If site staff fail to address the issue within a reasonable time (about a couple of weeks?), I would complain to Google (here: https://support.google.com/legal/troubleshooter/1114905?hl=en#ts=1115655,1282900,1115974 ) if the defamatory content about you is available in the search engine. The site itself may be outside the jurisdictions where the GDP... See more
If site staff fail to address the issue within a reasonable time (about a couple of weeks?), I would complain to Google (here: https://support.google.com/legal/troubleshooter/1114905?hl=en#ts=1115655,1282900,1115974 ) if the defamatory content about you is available in the search engine. The site itself may be outside the jurisdictions where the GDPR applies, but Google is not.

I would also check if Twitter gives you any way of complaining.
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Katarzyna Slowikova
Tatiana Fröhlich
Corbett AM
 
Viesturs Lacis
Viesturs Lacis  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 14:28
English to Latvian
. Apr 8, 2019

Kaspars Melkis wrote:
This link does not leave the impression that they are professionals. Rather they are some guys with god complexes. They do not disclose who they are, how they collect and process the data. This would not be lawful in the EU. Then they justify their anonymity with the example of a famous statistian publishing under pseudonym and the whistleblower which they are not.

They offer no way to rectify any potential mistakes. Item 14 rejects any possibility that they might ever be wrong.

It might be indeed that scamming that is such a big problem in translation market that it requires such drastic measures and they have good intentions. Nevertheless, in Maat's case it may be the revenge of some disgrunted project manager who regularly provides data to them. How would you ever know?

"God complex" unfortunately seems to be a thing with the leaders (moderators/administrators) of many online communities, as I have observed time and time again on various web forums, chat rooms and Facebook groups. It is probably a self reinforcing mix of such individuals being attracted to these positions in the first place, on one hand, and them gradually becoming even more cynical due to endless exposure to trolls and rule breakers, on the other hand.

Re GDPR - it seems to me that T-S takes the position that they do not owe any legal or professional courtesy to unscrupulous people even if some of them actually turn out to be innocent, which in turn is complicated by their apparent reluctance to admit any mistakes. They might also believe that there is no expectation of privacy in the professional sphere, which, to my knowledge, is the prevailing view in countries such as the USA (also lacking overarching data protection laws).

Regardless, if we are getting the full facts there is no doubt that T-S are in the wrong to disregard reports of an erroneous entry. What I was aiming to establish is the degree of "wrongness" we are talking about. For example, I could see their response to a complaint being influenced by its form and general attitude - for all I know, a hostile and accusatory communication might be more in common with the correspondence from real scammers (and therefore more prone to getting dismissed) rather than a wrongfully accused legitimate translator.


 
Tatiana Fröhlich
Tatiana Fröhlich
Germany
Local time: 13:28
Member (2013)
Slovak to Czech
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Re: CorbettAM Apr 9, 2019

One more question:

You wrote that Translator Scammers unfollowed you on Twitter. Was it based on any of your tweets concerning or after our colleague Michael Beijer tweeted this:

https://twitter.com/michaelbeijer/status/1115224566182436865


 
Corbett AM
Corbett AM  Identity Verified
Ireland
Local time: 12:28
French to English
+ ...
Didn't see that tweet at all ... Apr 9, 2019

maat ka re wrote:

One more question:

You wrote that Translator Scammers unfollowed you on Twitter. Was it based on any of your tweets concerning or after our colleague Michael Beijer tweeted this:

https://twitter.com/michaelbeijer/status/1115224566182436865


Hi there,

I had no idea he did that as I had not tweeted on the matter at all, not even once. I barely go to their page at all and did not go to their page yesterday (even while otherwise using twitter - liking stuff and so on) until I realised I was one follower down and realised they had unfollowed me. So MB's post probably contributed to their reason for unfollowing me but someone from TS was probably following the thread anyway if they are as proactive in their work as they claim to be.

If they react that way, let them off. I don't care. I'll keep my eye on them though.

TS mostly seem to post email addresses used in scams and do really interact with people they follow or are followed by and I do not see people interacting with them either by posting on their wall. The occasional like but that's it. It's not necessary I suppose unless someone as in this case wants to report other people talking about TS on a Proz forum.

It seems MB wants to make sure he stays on the right side of TS by reporting people to them who are only having an honest discussion that is not in line with his own fervent support of TS. Maybe he is afraid his opinion in their favour was not strong enough.

Hope you get sorted.


 
Corbett AM
Corbett AM  Identity Verified
Ireland
Local time: 12:28
French to English
+ ...
typo Apr 9, 2019

do NOT really react with their followers, I meant to say.

 
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