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Reducing prices for larger volumes of work
Thread poster: Julie Barber
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:58
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
For some, large projects are not an unalloyed good... Oct 31, 2019

Julie Barber wrote:
I wanted to know how much you would be happy to reduce your standard rate by for larger volumes of work?

Like (I think) many established freelancers I have a number of regular clients who each offer me a steady trickle of projects. If I take on a very large job I would run the risk of making myself unavailable to these clients, who would then perceive me as being less accessible and useful, and offer me less work in future. So I am very cautious about taking on large projects, and insist on a deadline that leaves me with some daily capacity for others.

There is an argument that the costs of switching from project to project are significant, and that because a large job reduces this switching cost it is worth offering a discount to secure such projects. That's not the case for me (few of my projects take less than half a day, most take a day plus) and setting up a new project takes minutes, not hours. As for invoicing, again, it takes minutes, and many of my clients actually do not require me to send them anyway.

It follows that for somebody in the above situation a large job is more of a negative than a positive. Such freelancers already have decent flows of work, so a large job does not offer extra security. Indeed, even if I were to accept it, I might charge a higher for a very large job with a tight deadline.

Finally, in some other industries (such as manufacturing) a discount for higher volume makes sense because a large fraction of costs are fixed. That means that as volumes go up, not all costs increase, which means profits rise much more quickly than volumes. That is not really the case in translating, where a freelancer's costs are nearly all variable i.e. the more you work, the higher your costs.

Regards,
Dan


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texjax DDS PhD
texjax DDS PhD  Identity Verified
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Oct 31, 2019



[Edited at 2019-10-31 15:44 GMT]


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:58
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Volume vs. quality Oct 31, 2019

In my case it isn't so much about the volume of work as about the quality of the work, i.e. the extent to which I find it sufficiently interesting.

For a large project of (say) 20K words that consists of endless snippets or completely mechanical phrases, I would not only offer no discount; I would charge extra to compensate for the tedium of having to do the translation.

But for a large project of (say) 20K words that consists of interesting, well-written, challenging d
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In my case it isn't so much about the volume of work as about the quality of the work, i.e. the extent to which I find it sufficiently interesting.

For a large project of (say) 20K words that consists of endless snippets or completely mechanical phrases, I would not only offer no discount; I would charge extra to compensate for the tedium of having to do the translation.

But for a large project of (say) 20K words that consists of interesting, well-written, challenging discursive text that develops and analyses complex ideas, and need not be done in a rush, I would certainly consider a reduction.
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Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Nikki Scott-Despaigne  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:58
French to English
A matter of phrasing Oct 31, 2019

The client is basically asking for a bulk-buy rate. What? You could find valid arguments for charging more. Off the top of my hat, if they don't pay up, then you have a larger volume outstanding than if it was a smaller job. One week's work is good, but one month's work is possible. Would you expect to earn less when you work more?

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Fiona Grace Peterson
Fiona Grace Peterson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 17:58
Italian to English
Flawed logic Oct 31, 2019

Since translation doesn't follow the same economic logic as mass-producing parts in a factory, I normally refuse. The 1000th word takes as much effort to translate as the first. I guess if you had no other work coming in, it would be better than nothing. But it's a slippery slope, and if you agree once with a certain agency, it sets a precedent whereby they will always expect discounts from you.

While I understand the logic, and realise that the translation industry (sadly) is not i
... See more
Since translation doesn't follow the same economic logic as mass-producing parts in a factory, I normally refuse. The 1000th word takes as much effort to translate as the first. I guess if you had no other work coming in, it would be better than nothing. But it's a slippery slope, and if you agree once with a certain agency, it sets a precedent whereby they will always expect discounts from you.

While I understand the logic, and realise that the translation industry (sadly) is not immune to it, it's not something I ascribe to, because as a service provider it makes no economic sense.
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Maxi Schwarz
Maxi Schwarz  Identity Verified
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German to English
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thoughts on volume Nov 1, 2019

My colleagues have already expressed most of my thoughts.

It is as much work to produce twenty 1,000 - word projects, as it does to produce one 20,000 word project, so there is no reason to charge less for the latter. In fact, the larger project may be harder to handle. In addition, risk of non-payment, late payment etc. is spread out over 20 clients (or several clients giving several jobs). Especially if the client asking for a large translation is a first time client, the risk
... See more
My colleagues have already expressed most of my thoughts.

It is as much work to produce twenty 1,000 - word projects, as it does to produce one 20,000 word project, so there is no reason to charge less for the latter. In fact, the larger project may be harder to handle. In addition, risk of non-payment, late payment etc. is spread out over 20 clients (or several clients giving several jobs). Especially if the client asking for a large translation is a first time client, the risk increases immediately. As well, short jobs are done faster, so payment is sooner (unless you make arrangements). You definitely do not want to be tied up with one client and have to say no to your other clients - that's a good way to lose them. It is also silly to forego a higher payment for twenty 1,000 word projects, for the sake of lower payment for one 20,000 word project.

All this has already been said.

Often one gets e-mails from companies saying how wonderful they are (rather than giving info on work they want to have done), together with the fact that they can give you regular and large projects to do. I think this plays with the fears of people who are accustomed to the "secure" world of employment (secure if you're not laid off) with regular pay cheques. It sort of mimics the employer-employee relationship, minus everything that employment offers (sick pay, payment into pension plans, vacation time etc.). This part is psychological.

It was explained to me by an agency that larger projects are preferable to agencies; small projects are not, because the main time expenditure is administrative. Unlike the translator, for the agency 20 jobs are 20 times as much work. For each project you must find a translator, make arrangements with the translator, with the end client, keep records, make sure you're paid, pay the translator. As translators we also have some filing, invoicing etc. to do for each project, but it is not nearly as complicated. We need to keep straight the world of the translator, and the world of the translation company.
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paulo bras
paulo bras
Portugal
English to Portuguese
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No simple "the answer is 42", sadly.... Nov 1, 2019

Julie Barber wrote:

(....)
How far would you reduce your prices though, and for what sort of volumes?

thanks

Julie


Hi,

the answer is, project profitability management. yup, it's a thing. there are even tools for it.

suppose you have on average 8 jobs/month, each 1k works, each 100€. that's 800€/month

now, comes a job of 4k words. You have to complete it in 2 weeks, and charge 400 to get even. reducing the price (say 25%), means you actually have to complete the work faster, to offset with another smaller job, or you end up loosing revenue.

- you must have a good idea (excel to the rescue) of the _average_ amount of work and/or revenue you can generate, by month, or by week
- you must know what a big volume job cuts on time availability to accept other jobs.
- you must have a "good guess" of the average number of jobs expected in the future, for the same amount of time that the big job takes from you. Ex: if you get a 4 week big job, do you expect the usual 8 smaller jobs to keep coming, and you'll have to reject them? market is dry, so no, or maybe more even? (this is called opportunity cost, entire libraries have been written on the subject, and those that get it, are financial wizards)(this is the hard one, don't feel bad for getting it wrong )

So, you nail these 3 points, and you have a "formula" that allows you to come up with a Limbo number: how low can you go before the risk of the job is too great, and better to wait for other things.
And this number is not a one-size-fits-all, you have to run the formula every time.

There you have it, project management 101. hope it helps


 
DZiW (X)
DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
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No "wholesale" prices Nov 1, 2019

First, any substantiated* abatement should be good for the very translator.
Second, all concessions must be reasonable and mutual, if any.
Third, translation is a troubleshooting service--a unique* business product.
Fourth, translation makes sense as the whole only for the client wants it all to get the idea [the key] and resolve the issue for making money.

Let's assume I make one cent reduction per word, what exactly they could offer me for $200 net? ($0.01 X 20,0
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First, any substantiated* abatement should be good for the very translator.
Second, all concessions must be reasonable and mutual, if any.
Third, translation is a troubleshooting service--a unique* business product.
Fourth, translation makes sense as the whole only for the client wants it all to get the idea [the key] and resolve the issue for making money.

Let's assume I make one cent reduction per word, what exactly they could offer me for $200 net? ($0.01 X 20,000 words; before taxes and expenses)
They are NOT my regular/favorite client [yet], we don't know each other, and no "best rates" nonsense. Next time they may want more 'discounts' for non/related smaller/bigger/similar job + as a second-timer + birthdays/holidays + it's Friday and so on.

And what kind of reduction it might be--a cash discount, a season, a functional, a promotional, or target (geographic/segment) one--and why exactly?

Not a single good reason
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Alexandra Hirsch (X)
Alexandra Hirsch (X)  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 17:58
English to German
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It depends Nov 4, 2019

Discounts? Yes. Definitely. It's what makes (my) clients come back for more! And before I hear you all crying foul, let me explain what my business model is.

My clients tend to go for the per-word price quotes rates than the hourly fees, which is why my pricing is based on text amount. However, because materials can be of varying complexity (e.g. a patent or legal agreement versus a romantic novel), my prices/quotes are based on my normal hourly fees and reflect the time it takes me
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Discounts? Yes. Definitely. It's what makes (my) clients come back for more! And before I hear you all crying foul, let me explain what my business model is.

My clients tend to go for the per-word price quotes rates than the hourly fees, which is why my pricing is based on text amount. However, because materials can be of varying complexity (e.g. a patent or legal agreement versus a romantic novel), my prices/quotes are based on my normal hourly fees and reflect the time it takes me to complete the task.

Working out how long you'll need for 19k words is obviously something you'll learn over time, so perhaps it's best to forget about discounts in the beginning. Once you've established your speed for typical text types, you could become more flexible in your pricing and earn the gratitude of your clients with your professionalism. (Because you're not one of those stupid computers, are you?)
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DZiW (X)
DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
Yesman/Naysayer Nov 4, 2019

Of course, usually per-project pricing is more preferable, yet different complexity [a complex approach] is no "discount".

While always* saying ‘yes’ (or even ‘no’) is neither right attitude nor flexibility, preferring $100 for a seven-hour job to $100 for a one-hour job is no business—let alone viable model, because losing money is opposite... See more
Of course, usually per-project pricing is more preferable, yet different complexity [a complex approach] is no "discount".

While always* saying ‘yes’ (or even ‘no’) is neither right attitude nor flexibility, preferring $100 for a seven-hour job to $100 for a one-hour job is no business—let alone viable model, because losing money is opposite of making money.
Besides, my colleagues say most middlemen unreasonably demand minimum 15% "discount".

As far as the payment reflects how they really appreciate one’s work, I can’t help wondering why they are shifting focus from the value to the price—for what and at whose expense! Can your clients substantiate the difference? Do they offer you discounts too? Does it give any benefits or just a sense of being used achievement? Or your work is not worth any higher? So many interesting questions triggering so many unnecessary and unpleasant answers...

(1) WHY you want me to give you a "discount", (2) WHY exactly that number, and (2) WHY you think I may consider it--gaining what?


It's ok if you want to volunteer for awhile or give a small* discount,
yet if somebody makes you feel uncomfortable, then it’s but a manipulation.
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Alexandra Hirsch (X)
Alexandra Hirsch (X)  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 17:58
English to German
+ ...
Uhm... Nov 4, 2019

Not sure if you meant me or my comment, but it seems you misunderstood the term 'discount' in this context. What I meant was that I charge per hour worked, which means that if the text (e.g. 50k words) takes me just 20 rather than 30 days to complete, I won't charge more than 20 days. I call it a discount only because my clients are quoted and pay per word, so a discount is a signal to them that they are not paying the full per-word fee.

 
DZiW (X)
DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
Always IMO, just my opinion Nov 5, 2019

Hello Alexandra--Usually (1) only dedicated specialists are apt and competent to comment on the personal reflections (mindset and worldview peculiarities, philia-phobia tendencies etc), whereas (2) common people just see and comment others' actions (not/saying, not/doing, not/looking etc). That's why sensible parents explain it to a naughty offspring the problem is "the bad behavior or the wrong choice", not "the bad child".

As for the per-hour/ per-word/ per-page/ per-batc
... See more
Hello Alexandra--Usually (1) only dedicated specialists are apt and competent to comment on the personal reflections (mindset and worldview peculiarities, philia-phobia tendencies etc), whereas (2) common people just see and comment others' actions (not/saying, not/doing, not/looking etc). That's why sensible parents explain it to a naughty offspring the problem is "the bad behavior or the wrong choice", not "the bad child".

As for the per-hour/ per-word/ per-page/ per-batch/ per-project/ per-region/ per-niche/ per-client/ per.... difference, the term "discount" in your context was used not as "agreeing to all demands", but rather a specific epithet to a complex/individual approach. Payplan rules)


Of course, you can count and decide what's better for yourself, so let's take such a hypothetical example:
1) Your CAT + your TM/glossary.
2) The rate is $0.10/word for effective words and $0.01 for fuzzy/internal matches.
3) A 40,000-word project appears with 98% all "fuzzy matches".
4) It takes some three (3) hours to CAT.

Total: [800 new words x $0.10] + [39,200 words x $0.01] = $80.00 + $392.00 = $472.00 ($157/hour)
Does it really sound good fair or you still can see that discount not counted $3528 (over 88%) ?
And how about a provided TM/glossary? Or a slightly edited MT? Businesswise for who?


Certainly, if the translator is both (1) aware of and (2) agree to all pluses and minuses, then it's ok. Yet depending on the profits may turn into a hobby.
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Reducing prices for larger volumes of work







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