| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] | Abusive exchange with a translation company Thread poster: Inez Ulrich
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I´m sorry for that, what happened to you, Inez. One more question, and forgive me, when it already has been raised in earlier posts here: Did you contact the end client, to inform them, with what business partner they are dealing with?
[Bearbeitet am 2019-11-26 13:42 GMT]
| | | | Inez Ulrich 
Germany
Local time: 19:05
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Matthias Brombach wrote:
I´m sorry for that, what happened to you, Inez. One more question, and forgive me, when it has already been raised in earlier posts here: Did you contact the end client, to inform them, with what business partner they are dealing with?
[Bearbeitet am 2019-11-26 13:41 GMT]
Hi Matthias,
yes, I informed them, didn't even get an answer, so they don't care.
I tried to involve a french lawyer and a collection agency, wrote several emails, no answer from them as well. it is obviously okay not only to scam people but also to abuse them (at least verbally). On TranslatorsCafe there is another woman who made the same experience. We both were stupid enough no to check BlueBord and TC's Hall of Shame, but I find it highly interesting how easily you can get away with sth like that. But why do I wonder? In a world where Trump is president of the US and he can say or do whatever he wants to without being held accountable for it such small fish are even more socially acceptable. Of course, there have been scammers at all times, but I have the feeling that nowadays people lose their imhibitions much more easily. But I certainly don't want to kick off a political discussion (which it isn't anyway, it is rather a question of decency and moral). It is a shame. And that fact that he tried it again today ...his impertinance is unmatched.
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Inez Ulrich wrote:
yes, I informed them, didn't even get an answer, so they don't care.
Let me please ask again, how you contacted them: simply by email to their general email adress (i.e. [email protected]) or via postal letter, adressed to the management / accountancy? I cannot imagine that the end client doesn´t care at all, where their money will flow to at the end.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 18:05
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| European Small Claims Procedure? | Nov 26, 2019 |
Have you given up on getting your payment, Inez? It's very sad that he should get away with non-payment -- almost like rewarding him, really -- but I can understand the economics.
However, I think I'd have taken him through the European Small Claims procedure, as it only costs around €40 to file, AFAIK. I know you sometimes have to pay up-front to enforce the payment after winning a SCC case (I had to in France as my client ignored the order) but you do get every cent reimbursed ... See more Have you given up on getting your payment, Inez? It's very sad that he should get away with non-payment -- almost like rewarding him, really -- but I can understand the economics.
However, I think I'd have taken him through the European Small Claims procedure, as it only costs around €40 to file, AFAIK. I know you sometimes have to pay up-front to enforce the payment after winning a SCC case (I had to in France as my client ignored the order) but you do get every cent reimbursed in the end. And even if you win (as you would!!!) but take it no further to avoid costs, being held in contempt of court might cause him all kinds of grief (credit rating, etc.). ▲ Collapse
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Inez Ulrich
Germany
Local time: 19:05
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Matthias Brombach wrote: Inez Ulrich wrote:
yes, I informed them, didn't even get an answer, so they don't care. Let me please ask again, how you contacted them: simply by email to their general email adress (i.e. [email protected]) or via postal letter, adressed to the management / accountancy? I cannot imagine that the end client doesn´t care at all, where their money will flow to at the end.
You are right. I wrote an email to the department in charge. I think I should try that again by postal letter. Should I attach copies of the emails he sent me?
| | | | Inez Ulrich
Germany
Local time: 19:05
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Sheila Wilson wrote:
Have you given up on getting your payment, Inez? It's very sad that he should get away with non-payment -- almost like rewarding him, really -- but I can understand the economics.
However, I think I'd have taken him through the European Small Claims procedure, as it only costs around €40 to file, AFAIK. I know you sometimes have to pay up-front to enforce the payment after winning a SCC case (I had to in France as my client ignored the order) but you do get every cent reimbursed in the end. And even if you win (as you would!!!) but take it no further to avoid costs, being held in contempt of court might cause him all kinds of grief (credit rating, etc.).
Sheila, I know the procedure (at least here in Germany), but he always has the chance to contradict the claim, then there is nothing I can do. of course, I could sue him, but I'd have to pay a lot of money upfront for a lawyer etc. I suppose he is aware of that and that is why he scams people. Maybe I'm wrong, but when you decline a court order the procedure is stopped. He doesn't even have to prove anything, he can simply check the box that says "I decline" and that#s it.
| | | | mroed
Local time: 19:05
Italian to German
+ ...
| is it worth while? | Nov 26, 2019 |
I hope I don't sound too heartless, but did I get it right that you risked your health because of 44 Euro? I'm asking since you mentioned that you paid a high price regarding your health.
| | | | Inez Ulrich
Germany
Local time: 19:05
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
mroed wrote:
I hope I don't sound too heartless, but did I get it right that you risked your health because of 44 Euro? I'm asking since you mentioned that you paid a high price regarding your health.
no, it was over € 200,-, that is quite a lot of money for me.
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| Check and assess | Nov 26, 2019 |
It is unfortunate that insults go unpunished. In Spain it’s not a criminal offence to insult someone. How about that.
Now, just today (well, it started yesterday), I received a very nice offer to work on a RU > ES project (love this language pair) from a Spanish agency. First thing I did was checking Blue Board entries for this agency. None were found.
I answered that I would be happy to work on this project, gave them my rate and estimated date for delivery, and tol... See more It is unfortunate that insults go unpunished. In Spain it’s not a criminal offence to insult someone. How about that.
Now, just today (well, it started yesterday), I received a very nice offer to work on a RU > ES project (love this language pair) from a Spanish agency. First thing I did was checking Blue Board entries for this agency. None were found.
I answered that I would be happy to work on this project, gave them my rate and estimated date for delivery, and told them that since there was no Blue Board entry, I would need them to pre-pay at least 50% of the total price (it was about EUR 600 in total).
The agency didn’t negotiate my rate, didn’t send my any NDA to sign, nothing. They just told me that they always pay when they get paid from the client. This is of course completely wrong. Our commercial dealings with the agency have nothing to do with the agency’s commercial dealings with the end client. These are two different transactions.
In other words, having had already my fair share of bad debts (fortunately, all of them have been collected, but boy,it take a lot of time and effort), and all bad debts having come from Spanish LSPs, I politely insisted on a pre-payment of at least 30% of the total.
In the end, they didn’t pre-pay and I didn’t take on the risk. And I am happy about that.
[Edited at 2019-11-26 18:01 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Inez Ulrich
Germany
Local time: 19:05
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
yes, that is good practice and necessary. Most clients understand and pay upfreont, but there are still enough dishonest people out there who are clearly looking for people they can betray.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 18:05
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| On what basis? | Nov 26, 2019 |
Inez Ulrich wrote:
Sheila, I know the procedure (at least here in Germany), but he always has the chance to contradict the claim, then there is nothing I can do. of course, I could sue him, but I'd have to pay a lot of money upfront for a lawyer etc. I suppose he is aware of that and that is why he scams people. Maybe I'm wrong, but when you decline a court order the procedure is stopped. He doesn't even have to prove anything, he can simply check the box that says "I decline" and that#s it.
I don't know all the ins and outs of the European claims procedure. I did once prepare everything and got to the point of saving the submission in a PDF (via the site). Then, prior to submitting it I sent it to my client, who promptly paid! So I never got to follow it through to the bitter end. I should have taken the first step again today (final demand + 14) but somehow I've managed, in good Spanish style, to put it off until mañana  .
But the client I sued in France certainly thought they had a defence as I'd actually signed a contract that said I'd by paid at the end of the job. When it got cancelled partway through, they thought they could hold off paying indefinitely until another suitable job came along. The court told me that the clause was abusive and labour always has to be paid for in a timely way on receipt of an invoice. I really can't imagine what defence your client could possibly come up with, particularly when the judge reads those awful emails. They'd be more likely to suggest adding a claim for compensation for verbal assault or whatever, I'd have thought. It was an atrocious outburst that clearly wasn't a one-off.
| | | | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:05
Serbian to English
+ ...
| The most ridiculous victim blaming! | Nov 26, 2019 |
David GAY wrote:
Could you imagine if everybody worked for non payers/bad payers?
The translation market would be completely ruined because this kind
of agency (if you can call it an agency) obviously offers very competitive
prices.
The sad fact is that translators work in an environment where for whatever reasons it has become "normal" that you when you do custom work for clients you know in fact very little about you are expected to give them in effect an unsecured loan instead of paying paid in advance.
I don't know of any other profession where this would be considered as "normal".
When translators have next to no choice about working in such environment blaming the translator for not being paid is beyond taking the mickey, especially when you take into account how the whole system is not much of an obstacle for all sort of crooks.
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