Which "variant", if any, of your native language do you speak?

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:

I don't speak Portuguese but I would think it's always up to the individual what they feel comfortable to take on. There are probably many translators that might not want to be defined as "variant Portugal Portuguese" and miss out on jobs. If these two variants are so different, maybe they should be categorized as two separate languages. But as far as I know, they're not.

José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:



Portuguese is legally one and the same language, as defined by both Brazilian and Portuguese Constitutions. In translation, the two major variants should be treated as one and the same SOURCE language, but as two different TARGET languages.

I mean, it is not technically wrong - just weird - to use either variant in the other's venue.

I tried to explain this in English on this page. No point in explaining it in Portuguese, because we all know it.

Though there are many scholarly papers explaining the difference in accents, I have found none that attempts to elucidate the difference in logic, i.e. the strikingly different ways we convert thoughts into words - and back - on either side of the Atlantic.

Were it not for this difference in logic, a powerful CAT tool, or perhaps machine translation software could be set up to reliably convert PT-PT < > PT-BR with 99,9% accuracy. As it is, nobody has dared to try it, because all PT-speakers already know it won't work.

The latest joke on the difference goes like this:

The mother gives money to her boy, and says:
"Jimmy, go to the store by the corner, and bring me five bread rolls. If they have eggs, bring six."

In Brazil, Jimmy would return home with five bread rolls and six eggs.

In Portugal, Jimmy would return home with six bread rolls only, and tell his mom that yes, they had eggs.

No, the Portuguese are not stupid at all. They merely interpret everything exactly as stated, making the person who gave the instructions look stupid. Supposedly, in Portugal Jimmy's mother should have said "If they have eggs, bring six of them, too."

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:

Again, I don't speak Portuguese, but I can imagine someone could be a little offended by that joke; I know it's just a joke and you didn't intend to offend. But my point is that if you feel comfortable taking on a translation into whatever variant of "Portuguese," you should be able to do it. This should not be restricted/filtered on sites like this one. There are many reasons why someone might be quite capable taking on various assignments.

I wouldn't restrict or filter people - and on what basis exactly?
If they themselves want to declare a variant and thus be filtered, oh well, that's their preference. But it's not something I want. But I'll leave Portuguese to the people who speak, write and translate into and from it. So, sorry for butting in.

Graça Ribeiro wrote:

Hello, everyone.

My native language is Portuguese and the 'variant' is European.

I understand people with a more 'varied' background - linguistic, professional and personal - may have difficulties in giving such a straightforward reply to the question that's the title of this topic. I probably would have a similar problem if I had to define the English and French 'variants' I can translate from, for example.

But for me, depending on how the actual thing will work, this could be very useful indeed. I would like to see European Portuguese translators somehow 'separated' from the Brazilian Portuguese translators on the PROZ site. I think this would be useful for both translators and clients without compromising any sense of community.

I don't know if all my colleagues would agree and it was my intention to open a discussion topic on the relevant forum to try and sort that out. But since this opportunity has arisen, I'm taking a 'shortcut' - hoping it doesn't somehow turn into any kind of hornest's nest.

Having the language variant (EU or BR) specified on job offers, for example, has made my life much easier so I would like to see if similar improvements could be made at other levels. I agree this may not be so easy with other languages but even so it may be worth trying.

Sorry for the long thread. Any feedback or comments are welcome.

José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:



Yes, these jokes are offensive. However after we - Brazilians - look into the issue (and unfortunately not so many of us do), we realize how much content we skip in our daily communication, expecting the other party to understand and act upon what was actually left unsaid.

Surprisingly, there is no trouble with that, as long as communication is kept strictly within one same variant.

Changing variant is like a four-operation calculator where the operations keys have been shuffled. Once you know that X is now for subtraction, / is for addition, + is for division, and - is for multiplication, it will take some mental effort, but you will be able to use it.

The problem will be when you go BACK to a standard calculator. This is why it's so hard to translate into Portuguese in a different variant from the one an individual uses every day. It's like switching from a calculator, where 7-8-9 keys are at the top row to a telephone, where the top keys are 1-2-3.

If you read my article - this dawned upon me right now - the PT-speaker who has lived in each variant for some considerable time may succeed in translating into either if they live in a country where PT is not the local language. The analogy is to someone working on a computer alphanumeric keyboard (the local language) all day, with the numbers 1-0 lined up on the top row (disregarding the numeric keyboard, which did not exist in the first computers) and occasionally using a telephone or calculator keyboard (the two variants).

Expressing ideas in PT-BR or PT-PT could be equated to two different mental processes.

For the sake of convenience, and to avoid misunderstandings, most of the Portuguese translators I have contact with prefer to communicate with us - Brazilians - in English!