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Proofreading if translation is bad
Thread poster: Rolf Kern
M Pradeep Kumar
M Pradeep Kumar  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 04:49
English to Telugu
+ ...
Agree - too risky Nov 24, 2015

Sheila Wilson wrote:

Rebecca Davis wrote:
Take a look at the first few paragraphs.

My experience is that very often the first page, or even the first few pages, are reasonably good. Then reality sets in. Maybe a quality-conscious translator has stepped far outside their comfort zone so is having to do an awful lot of research. That's fine at the start but after a while the research may become too onerous, or it's simply a question of the clock clicking its way to a deadline, and so quality declines. Maybe they are proofreading each section as they go - until that deadline overtakes their careful work. Maybe they're burning the midnight oil and working and cat-napping at the same time. Or maybe a perfectly capable translator simply outsources the second part to another, incompetent one - who delivers too late for proper proofreading to be done.

Whatever the reason, the risks of looking just at the first page are too high.


I guess Proof-reading is a misnomer, at least here in India. What the agencies really want is a thorough editing/review job in the name of proof-reading. Such an euphemism it is.

Recently, I accepted a 'proof-reading' job based on a sample text sent to me by the client. It looked near perfect. And I thought, wow, easy cake and of course grabbed it.

But the reality set in when I started working on the actual text. There were some areas where the translator did very well, but there were many areas where it took lot of time, pardon me, to clear up the mess. And it was difficult to re-negotiate the price with the client as I had initially given the feedback that the translator did pretty good work.

So, one has to exercise great caution before quoting a price for a proof-reading, er, reviewing/editing job.


 
George Hopkins
George Hopkins
Local time: 00:19
Swedish to English
Refuse Nov 24, 2015

Refuse, at no cost, pointing out that the translation is inferior.

 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 19:19
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
A great point Nov 24, 2015

Pradeep Kumar Maheshwarla wrote:


But the reality set in when I started working on the actual text. There were some areas where the translator did very well, but there were many areas where it took lot of time, pardon me, to clear up the mess. And it was difficult to re-negotiate the price with the client as I had initially given the feedback that the translator did pretty good work.

So, one has to exercise great caution before quoting a price for a proof-reading, er, reviewing/editing job.


A lot of people here have pointed out the importance of previewing the translation before accepting a proofreading job. It sounds like a smart idea but in reality it doesn't always work. Something seemingly good can turn out to be very bad if you actually edit it.


 
Christine Andersen
Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 00:19
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
I think occasionally we have to accept the patchy-to-bad texts Nov 24, 2015

... but certainly not all the time.

Proofreading is necessary, but it should be just that, not a major task of cleaning up.

I have learnt a lot from proofreading for experienced colleagues, and I have certainly been helped by feedback from having my own work proofread. Beginners have to make a start somewhere, so occasionally, we have to accept their efforts and help them to improve. Agencies should tell the proofreader, however, that the translator may be inexperienced
... See more
... but certainly not all the time.

Proofreading is necessary, but it should be just that, not a major task of cleaning up.

I have learnt a lot from proofreading for experienced colleagues, and I have certainly been helped by feedback from having my own work proofread. Beginners have to make a start somewhere, so occasionally, we have to accept their efforts and help them to improve. Agencies should tell the proofreader, however, that the translator may be inexperienced.

Nevertheless, I have seen very good translations by beginners. Those who have a flair for it and have taken advantage of their training can deliver accurate and generally very well-written work.

So if the translation is being passed off as professional, it should be up to professional standard, or only need a very little polishing.

On the whole, there are plenty of translators around, so those who cannot meet the standards should not be encouraged - they should be told firmly to find something else to do.
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Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 23:19
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Oh, wouldn't that be lovely? Nov 25, 2015

Christine Andersen wrote:
On the whole, there are plenty of translators around, so those who cannot meet the standards should not be encouraged - they should be told firmly to find something else to do.

It would be nice to be able to do that here on ProZ.com, too. But it isn't 'politically correct' nowadays.


 
Kay Denney
Kay Denney  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 00:19
French to English
I agree with Sheila Nov 25, 2015

Sheila Wilson wrote:

Rebecca Davis wrote:
Take a look at the first few paragraphs.

My experience is that very often the first page, or even the first few pages, are reasonably good. Then reality sets in. Maybe a quality-conscious translator has stepped far outside their comfort zone so is having to do an awful lot of research. That's fine at the start but after a while the research may become too onerous, or it's simply a question of the clock clicking its way to a deadline, and so quality declines. Maybe they are proofreading each section as they go - until that deadline overtakes their careful work. Maybe they're burning the midnight oil and working and cat-napping at the same time. Or maybe a perfectly capable translator simply outsources the second part to another, incompetent one - who delivers too late for proper proofreading to be done.

Whatever the reason, the risks of looking just at the first page are too high.


Sometimes the first page is better because the translator was feeling fresher, then boredom/tiredness/whatever kicked in and they didn't feel like making the effort any more.

Sometimes the first page is better because the translator knows that the sooner the client sees a mistake, the more extreme their reaction (I remember a client screaming at me because of a silly typo in a heading at the top of the first page... which her secretary had added in BTW)

Sometimes the first page is worse, because the translator was working outside their comfort zone, then it picks up later as they get more familiar with the subject and have read stuff in their target language, but they don't bother to go back and brush up the beginning.

And often the text starts out with introductory blurb, which is fine for people who are good at churning out elegant prose but a bane for many technical translators, then on page 2 you get down to the nitty-gritty and the prose-writer has trouble with terminology, but the technical translators are in their element.
So depending on the type of translator you are, your first page will be better or worse than the rest.

Either way, you need to look at the beginning and also dip in at various points throughout the text before making a valid assessment.


 
Francesca Collodo
Francesca Collodo  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:19
German to English
+ ...
I feel your pain Nov 27, 2015

I have recently decided to stop taking on any proofing jobs. For reasons very similar to those you describe.

One agency I have collaborated with for a while began sending me proofing after proofing job. They were big texts, I took them on. I work in a specialist technical field. After a while, I started wondering, why am I only getting the proofing? I would far prefer the translation job.

Then I finally clocked on as to why...each request for proofing, began to be accom
... See more
I have recently decided to stop taking on any proofing jobs. For reasons very similar to those you describe.

One agency I have collaborated with for a while began sending me proofing after proofing job. They were big texts, I took them on. I work in a specialist technical field. After a while, I started wondering, why am I only getting the proofing? I would far prefer the translation job.

Then I finally clocked on as to why...each request for proofing, began to be accompanied by a "request for feedback - particularly with regard to the technical terms". One day, a vast text came along, and it was abundantly clear to me that the translator had absolutely no familiarity with the domain. She'd done a valiant job...she was fortunate in that the TM was large, and many segments and terms could be found, or pieced together, within it.

However, those segments with no TM context whatsoever were really strange...really, really odd. So I added the SDL Language Cloud MT provider and lo and behold, each one was an exact, unedited, match.

I advised the agency of this. But was simply told I MUST be wrong. The translator "doesn't even know what SDL Language Cloud is".

I made a mental note and simply began to turn down their proofing jobs, whilst still translating for them. After a while, they questioned this. I was honest, and told them my reasons for this. They tried to persuade me - and indeed, did always agree to paying for additional time spent on the proofing. But that is no good to me. I wasn't about to risk all my other customers and projects by having to spend double or triple the planned amount of time on these tasks. Plus, I hated doing them.

Much pleading and emailing later, I was honest with them and told them, that I believed they were getting non-technical translators to 'have a go' at these translations, and then I was cleaning them up. Heck, I was even, I believe, being used as some kind of unwitting 'trainer'.

They denied it, of course, but I stood my ground. And then, later that day, up pops a job alert...very same agency. Attempting to recruit new translators in my exact specialist fields.

After that, I stopped taking any jobs from them at all. They were one of my lowest payers, and I needed a cull, so the timing was good. But even if I hadn't, I felt as though they had not acted with integrity. They had no problems lying to me. And collaborators like that, I have found, are far more trouble than they are worth.

It's a shame, as proofreading is a great tool, and you can learn a lot from reviewing another (good) translator's work. But when agencies/customers are prepared to abuse it in this way, it's a minefield.
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Adrian Hernandez
Adrian Hernandez  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 19:19
English to Spanish
+ ...
My take on the issue.... Mar 29, 2016

Mr.Kern,

Time is a valuable and limited asset.

In our business time is also money.

Suggestions:

1. Point out to client (highlight) parts that you consider are wrong.
2. Ask for an hourly rate.
3. Let client decide.

Bottom line, inform client and do not waste your valuable time.

Once, a translator did such a bad job that I ended paying the proofreader to redo the whole document (rush job)

Client
... See more
Mr.Kern,

Time is a valuable and limited asset.

In our business time is also money.

Suggestions:

1. Point out to client (highlight) parts that you consider are wrong.
2. Ask for an hourly rate.
3. Let client decide.

Bottom line, inform client and do not waste your valuable time.

Once, a translator did such a bad job that I ended paying the proofreader to redo the whole document (rush job)

Client Satisfaction should be priority #1!

Also, keep in mind that it is your reputation on the line.
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Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:19
Member (2008)
Italian to English
The only reason Mar 29, 2016

There is only one possible reason why an agency has been given a bad translation and wants someone to correct it:

They chose the wrong translator in the first place.


 
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