| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Toxic proof-readers Thread poster: Mariusz Kuklinski
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Sheila Wilson 
Spain
Local time: 19:13
Member (2007)
English
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| How I handled it | Jun 14, 2015 |
It's only happened once to me. I accepted the two changes that were truly valid: a typo and the accepted translation of a proper noun that I didn't know existed. I also accepted a few preferential changes that I preferred too. Then I sent the translation back with comments. I praised the proofreader for those improvements; chose a couple of examples where errors of terminology, grammar or punctuation had been introduced; left the decision about the rest to the client, i.e. accept them if you lik... See more It's only happened once to me. I accepted the two changes that were truly valid: a typo and the accepted translation of a proper noun that I didn't know existed. I also accepted a few preferential changes that I preferred too. Then I sent the translation back with comments. I praised the proofreader for those improvements; chose a couple of examples where errors of terminology, grammar or punctuation had been introduced; left the decision about the rest to the client, i.e. accept them if you like but at your peril
I don't know what the outcome was, but I did many more jobs for the client. Maybe the proofreader didn't. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mariusz Kuklinski
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:13
Member
English to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Response to Adam | Jun 14, 2015 |
Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I certainly do have these dictionaries. I am, however, highly reluctant to quote them as examples because "translating by dictionary" is not exactly a term of commendation in my book; see the traps in translating "by dictionary" the famous phrase: "naked conductor runs along the train".... It is for this reason that I prefer examples with more context.
| | | | | In Spain it's awful | Jun 14, 2015 |
and I haven't had the same experience with agencies in other countries, but I can't stand getting my translations sent back, full of horrible red marks.
When I was a young girl I was taught that it was rude to write in red and I'm afraid I've always been very sensitive to red 'corrections'.
On two particular occasions when I was sent the reviewer's comments and told to 'be more careful next time', I just couldn't be bothered to read through all the comments and I told... See more and I haven't had the same experience with agencies in other countries, but I can't stand getting my translations sent back, full of horrible red marks.
When I was a young girl I was taught that it was rude to write in red and I'm afraid I've always been very sensitive to red 'corrections'.
On two particular occasions when I was sent the reviewer's comments and told to 'be more careful next time', I just couldn't be bothered to read through all the comments and I told the agency that I had enjoyed working for them but would no longer accept any more work from them.
However, I do remember seeing the reviewer had changed 'competencies' to 'competences'. One of my translations was for a university and I had spent absolutely ages trying to figure out whether the original referred to the plural of 'competency' or 'competence' and I discovered that the Bologna Process talks about 'competencies'. I agree with someone's comment about having to spend a load of unpaid hours on a translation I had thought met the required standards.
I'm always open to criticism but there are more subtle ways of complaining about someone's work. If I'm not satisfied with a product or service, I just don't go back to the establishment that sold whatever it was I wasn't satisfied with. I'm thinking of a dentist I went to once and the guy messed things up and I ended up losing a tooth
Life is complicated enough as it is and we don't need to make it even more difficult. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 14:13
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
... when making corrections, the editor should at least first consider that the translator is competent and made a particular translation consciously and with much forethought and not immediately assume that everything that "looks of out place" or "sounds wrong" is necessarily an error or "laziness" on the part of the translator. Instead of, "oops that's wrong", they should think "now, why did they translate it that way..." Then, they can provide constructive feedback, "I see what you were tryin... See more ... when making corrections, the editor should at least first consider that the translator is competent and made a particular translation consciously and with much forethought and not immediately assume that everything that "looks of out place" or "sounds wrong" is necessarily an error or "laziness" on the part of the translator. Instead of, "oops that's wrong", they should think "now, why did they translate it that way..." Then, they can provide constructive feedback, "I see what you were trying to do there by avoiding the passive/split participle/repeated term, but..." or "I see why you chose that term, but in the garment industry, we say....". ▲ Collapse
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Phil Hand
China
Local time: 02:13
Chinese to English
| With a good proofreader, no notes are necessary | Jun 15, 2015 |
Agree with all of the above, especially Sheila - where you can, say thank you for the good bits and just ignore the rest. That's good practice for almost all human communication!
My best experiences with proofreaders have involved no notes at all, or only minimal notes. In the ideal situation, the proofreader finds an error, she changes it, I see the change, check and accept it. The first time notes needed is if I disagree with a change, but find it reasonable. I'm not going to wast... See more Agree with all of the above, especially Sheila - where you can, say thank you for the good bits and just ignore the rest. That's good practice for almost all human communication!
My best experiences with proofreaders have involved no notes at all, or only minimal notes. In the ideal situation, the proofreader finds an error, she changes it, I see the change, check and accept it. The first time notes needed is if I disagree with a change, but find it reasonable. I'm not going to waste my time teaching bad proofreaders English, but if a proofreader has made a thoughtful change that I want to reject, then I think I owe her an explanation.
But notes and explanations are often difficult to write, technically difficult to insert (where do you put them? in those note boxes on the side? where someone then has to manually delete them?), and open to misinterpretation, so I think they're a last resort.
The best note is just: thank you for catching those errors, hope to work with you again soon. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mariusz Kuklinski
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:13
Member
English to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Response to Phil | Jun 15, 2015 |
I have just finished sorting out the mess created by my toxic proof-reader. There were just around 750 words and it took me full 12 hours (it's 4 AM in London now!). I prepared two versions of the files, a working, "educational" one, with around 50 detailed explanations, why I rejected a given correction or otherwise, and a clean version. In the working version I put all the explanations as endnotes, which seem to be a particularly suitable solution, bearing in mind that they do not distort the ... See more I have just finished sorting out the mess created by my toxic proof-reader. There were just around 750 words and it took me full 12 hours (it's 4 AM in London now!). I prepared two versions of the files, a working, "educational" one, with around 50 detailed explanations, why I rejected a given correction or otherwise, and a clean version. In the working version I put all the explanations as endnotes, which seem to be a particularly suitable solution, bearing in mind that they do not distort the graphic arrangement of a page and are easy to delete when working on a clean version. I have gone through this only for the PM who is a very nice person and it is my first job/let for her, while the client is a very powerful institution, so I didn't want to leave her with an unfinished assignment but it certainly isn't an exercise I would be prepared to repeat (I actually offered to return the money at the first glimpse of the butchery). I am thinking hard, shouldn't I send the proof-reader a bill for the loss of business and exemplary damages.
Many thanks to all who contributed.
- Mariusz ▲ Collapse
| | | | Thayenga
Germany
Local time: 20:13
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
| Proofreading | Jun 15, 2015 |
When I proofread a document I usually leave my personal preferences aside for as long as the translation is correct. And I do prefer perfect translations.
For one of my clients the "proofreading" also includes making the appropriate changes in the document, then evaluate the translation: if it's good, then there's no need to comment within the assessment sheet. If there are more errors, then a 1-2 word(s) comment is... See more When I proofread a document I usually leave my personal preferences aside for as long as the translation is correct. And I do prefer perfect translations.
For one of my clients the "proofreading" also includes making the appropriate changes in the document, then evaluate the translation: if it's good, then there's no need to comment within the assessment sheet. If there are more errors, then a 1-2 word(s) comment is all it takes.
This is how proofreading and/or editing should be done for the benefit of all parties. And yes, I don't particularily like proofreaders who believe that delivering a file with maybe one or two changes makes the PM or end client think they didn't do a good job. And yes, it is possible to edit a document to death. I just haven't figured out the reason for that.
[Edited at 2015-06-15 14:12 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Mariusz Kuklinski wrote:
There were just around 750 words and it took me full 12 hours
and also on occasions where proofreading 750 words took 12 hours (don't take me wrong, I prefer leaving style and so on, just as Thayenga describes, but these were occasions where the translator was substandard and the text had to be published at a large scale).
and also on occasions where two independent proofreaders were hair-splitting and finished being mutual enemies.
Since then I avoid proofreading. It always takes much more time than required and the client is always dissatisfied.
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Mariusz Kuklinski
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:13
Member
English to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Response to Thayenga | Jun 15, 2015 |
It would be a pleasure working with you, Thayenga!
| | | | Thayenga
Germany
Local time: 20:13
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
Mariusz Kuklinski wrote:
It would be a pleasure working with you, Thayenga!
Thank you, Mariusz. You never know, it might happen one day.
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Was this Polish into English, or English into Polish?
| | | | Mariusz Kuklinski
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:13
Member
English to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Reply to philgoddard | Jun 15, 2015 |
English to Polish, which is my native language but I have only a few decades of experience.
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| Who pays for these 12 hours? | Jun 17, 2015 |
12 hours is really much too much especially if you consider that you did a good job. You can not send this bill to the proofreader though, I would however consider to charge that to the agency or at least discuss with them what they can propose you for these 12 hours you had to spend on the document again...
| | | | Mariusz Kuklinski
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:13
Member
English to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Response to Andrea | Jun 17, 2015 |
Actually, providing a structured, reasoned response why I am rejecting ego-trip interventions ["Dear Proofreader, with all due respect, please kindly note, when you changed a plural 'you' (the Polish equivalent to 'vous') to a singular 'you', (the Polish equivalent to 'tu') you imply familiarity which is not conveyed in the original document which is a leaflet rather than a signed, personal letter] took me around six times as much time as the original translation, as it was one of these texts yo... See more Actually, providing a structured, reasoned response why I am rejecting ego-trip interventions ["Dear Proofreader, with all due respect, please kindly note, when you changed a plural 'you' (the Polish equivalent to 'vous') to a singular 'you', (the Polish equivalent to 'tu') you imply familiarity which is not conveyed in the original document which is a leaflet rather than a signed, personal letter] took me around six times as much time as the original translation, as it was one of these texts you do not need to engage your brain, your fingers do the job perfectly themselves). Now, when you work on an indemnification clause in American legalese, that's, certainly, a wholly different story... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mariusz Kuklinski
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:13
Member
English to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | And another flower | May 21, 2016 |
And just another case of a toxic proofreader. In a heavy financial legalese, mine has painstakingly replaced my carefully chosen terms with "polonised" English ones, which is both bad English and bad Polish. S/he failed to notice that the terms I used were these in use in the language of the relevant Polish legislation, currently in force. It just didn't dawn on her/him to consult it. Is it just exuberant youth or I am out of phase here?
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